True that’s possible for some of them. I have spoken to at least 1 atlas team in gold who had gotten it in sapphire and then dropped down to gold. Can’t remember the name now though, was a while back.
This thread isn’t about who has Atlas and who doesn’t. It’s about PG making a promise and then making plans to not follow through on it. Every player should be concerned about a gaming company pulling things like this, especially when people spend money based on that promise.
Please keep it on topic.
Poll is above for anyone who missed it.
Also note that the strongest argument tossed around against bringing back old Divine dragons was that it devalued the work people put in when those dragons were available. Same logic should apply here. Would you have completed any seasonal riders’ lines for common-equivalent gear?
So, let’s start with:
When you ask someone a question and they either don’t know the answer of refuse to answer, do you sit on your hands and hope the person will respond to you before the question becomes irrelevant or continue to question them? Neither, because neither will produce results; if the person does not know the answer to the question and after several people have asked the question yet the person has made no efforts to 1) find out the answer, or 2) tell them upfront they don’t know and will search for the answer, then the logical course of action is to seek out answers elsewhere while you continue in pursuit of your question and the truth. To give up is to invalidate everything you (not the “you” as in who I am replying to but rather the "you as in the object of the subject within this text) have done up to and including anything previously or in the future will have said or done.
“All that is necessary for evil to triumph is that good people do nothing.” – that is a well established quote for a reason, and the injustice that has been committed here cannot be aloud to pass into silent acceptance. It must be fought with every fiber of our being, and no person who calls themselves morally, ethically, or humanely good can, should, or will allow this to pass without outcry.
So, yes, different staffers work in different departments, but when one fails to reveal answers, should not the others be queried? Not every department will know every single thing that is going on, so maybe the answer can be found by someone else in a different department; maybe someone in that other department can than bring this matter to the attention of those who make the decisions, or maybe if enough people in enough departments are made aware of this then some measure of justice can be dispensed to the injured parties, and it is an injury to ourselves as people, humans, citizens, and players that trusted the words were were told as true and correct, only for them to be changed and our trust abused.
And no, giving me, my team, my league, or everyone access to Atlas tomorrow–even if it were possible–would not “shut me up”, because that does not change what this is, which is an injustice, a lie, and a slap in our faces for all the effort we have put into the game, our team, and our rights as consumers of a product.
When the Dark Flak cannons got the massive power reduction because they were, as stated by pg, “miscalculated”, did you, and everyone who then focused on building up you dark flak cannons as the best there was, sit quietly and accept miscalculation? No, you all–everyone, from diamond to bronze–said “No, this is not acceptable, we poured our time, money, and resources, to make the dark flak cannons the strongest on our base, you can’t do this.” This post from that incident sums it up well:
Is this not the same situation? Did pg not “miscalculate” the value of seasonal riders and their gear? Remember that there was even a proposed boycott due to that dark flak power down grade, and that because it was threatened from the top of the player base–diamond, high spenders–it was listened to and changes were made.
The difference in these two situations? The dark flak nerf most affected the high spenders who bought resources to up their dark flaks while the seasonal gear affects the low- to free-play spenders who bought the gear. That, is the only difference in these two situations; one affected the “whales” and one did not.
And that is why I won’t let this go, because it’s the same situation, a situation that affects me and many teams in my league and out, but not the big spenders, who see no problem to themselves, and therefore don’t care.
My team is not bad; ethically and morally, I’d even wager my team is better than your. We are all hard working adults, who have jobs, families, college, and many other concerns and pulls on our time and money, so we can not compete at the levels required to stay in sapphire. Does that mean we’re a “bad” team? no, it means we are what most people in the world are; overtaxed, exhausted, and trying our best. Very few of us have the disposable income to spend $100s of dollars in a game on a weekly basis, but that doesn’t mean we aren’t just as determined and hard working as those players in leagues above us, it just means we got the short stick in life and have to work even harder in-game to try and accomplish just as much as those who can buy their way to the top. Maybe not everyone at the top of the leagues bought their way up, but they sure did have a lot of time then to put into keeping their place up there.
I have, but I wasn’t getting a response from the people who should have been responding–PGEcho was the only one who was selectively responding to certain comments–that is until I pestered (and yes, I did pester them) enough that someone finally laid the smackdown. But I did get a response, which was the target of that tagging spree. I annoyed them into noticing we’re still here, not the best strategy, but it got “a” result.
@Crankypants Yes! that is also a good point!
The two answers you provided are also not the only 2 that exist either though.
Curious what you define as injustice…
Not necessarily, when what you did likely just means a ban and then you cannot query them anyways.
What was your injury again?
I feel like he said proposed or that nothing was set in stone, or it could be changed. And with your reaction the more likely course of action…they likely just will not say anything at all.
Oh no…I dont think giving you Atlas would make you be less obnoxious, but I would enjoy myself at least so I am happy with that outcome.
As far as I can tell…two different scenarios. One was a change to something that was already completed and this one was your thoughts and actions based on a hypothetical. Did you obtain the gear and THEN they changed it?
In a performance level I would say lower. The factors are irrelevant.
Nobody said that, but performance metrics are what they are
Possibly bad decisions were also made? That is hardly definitive proof.
True, I think you should keep doing it then, it seems effective.
You are trying to turn this into some giant moral issue for yourself and usually I actually agree. You just go about it in a really obnoxious manner. I hope you do get Atlas ASAP so that it can be applied there.
Well. The Seasonal gear does say “Rare” on it afterall. What is the rarity which Seasonal gear is being compared to? If not Atlas gear, then what is “Common” Seasonal gear and when will it be released?
Maybe it has no direct comparison…which could also be a problem in items own way.
I get the sentiment, I just think annoying people until they eventually stop responding is not really helpful either.
It can be fun though lol
Yes, I used the either/or logical fallacy, but I couldn’t think of alternatives to it that didn’t sound the same. Maybe you’d Like to give us a few more examples?
Dictionary . com’s definition of injustice.
1.the quality or fact of being unjust; inequity.
2.violation of the rights of others; unjust or unfair action or treatment.
3.an unjust or unfair act; wrong.
I have in multiple posts’ stated what I think is wrong here, but to make it short; we bough seasonal gear that was equivalent to rare atlas gear, and now it’s not.
At least I tried. If one person doesn’t have the answer, than another’s counsel should be seeked.
Was stated above, but here; we were lied to and deceived.
The “Proposal” didn’t single out seasonal gear–as we have pointed out several times in this thread–while they also said that any buffs or nerfs to gear would be to both atlas and seasonal gear, as was pointed out several times in this thread.
How rude; Ad Hominen attacks are have been interpreted and determined by many people to mean that when it is used that person has no further logical argument and instead attack the person saying the opposing thing. I’ve ignored several of your insults and jabs, but be civil here, I’ve not attacked you yet.
No, same scenarios. The seasonal gears were “released” as completed products–subject of course to changes made in game just like the dark flaks were completed products that were changed after the fact. The key difference, as I said, if what part of the player base is affected. And yes, I obtained the gear and THEN they changed it, no doubt like you when you built your dark flak(s) and then they changed it.
Yes it is, see above sentence.
I’ll accept that term; we can’t perform at the level that sapphire (and diamond) can, but we still do the best we can with what we are given.
I don’t think I understand what you mean by this.
People cannot choose who they were born too. Don’t go there. “Bad decisions” are not what lead me here.
Eh, I got someone to respond from the “correct” department, I’ll give it a little more time before I try to elicit another annoyed-based response.
You are right in that it is a moral issue–along with many other things–but it doesn’t concern just me, it concerns all the players who have previously gotten the seasonal gear. And as I have said, getting atlas will not change my stance on this.
I must say I am very displeased that you took apart only pieces of what I said and tried to focus on the problems you could spot in them, rather than the whole post and the message it was saying.
Now, I have to go to class, and will return and several hours. Have a good day.
How is it that PG proposing to BUFF something (for a change) has ultimately led to the thread with more player vs player argument than any in my recent memory? Funny how the world works.
I agree that getting on PG’s bad side isn’t a good way to get them to respond. On that note, I probably was the wrong person to start this thread.
Hopefully, at least the POLL ABOVE and the good points brought up by other players regarding this topic are hard to ignore.
Lol…welcome to the forums
Yeah, well… for a minute there it kinda ended the debate… which was getting a lil’ bit testy.
If we want any PG employee to read this id suggest keeping it on topic and stop spamming it with random disccussions or silly off topic arguments.
I do not find the reasoning behind this decision to be acceptable.
Players who don’t have Atlas both war against and participate in events against players who do have Atlas, this includes resource events where cross league attacks are common. By buffing Atlas gear and not Seasonal gear, you are creating a greater disparity between the power of teams with Atlas, and those without.
As was pointed out earlier in this thread, Seasonal gear is labeled as “Rare”. By buffing Atlas gear and not Seasonal gear, that label no longer means anything. You are removing the comparitive value of Seasonal gear even if the % remains the same. People are now crying “foul” because they would have changed their decision in how to invest sigils if they hadn’t been told that Seasonal gear would also be buffed. Please take note of the POLL ABOVE as evidence of the “frustration and outrage” which will ensue if you (PG) do not hold to that promise. Changing the stats of items in Atlas after they are released is no better than changing the stats of Seasonal items after they are released, how can you justify doing one but not the other?
What it takes to complete a Seasonal line is dependant upon how much a person spends and what league they are in. It takes many players an entire season to complete a single line. If 10% gear is considered an acceptable value for previous Seasonal gear after Atlas gear is buffed, then I would expect to see 10% gear released in the future, or a proportional % increase compared to any increase in Seasonal gear costs. We both know this will not be the case, because no one will spend their sigils for gear that is equivalent to “Common” Atlas gear, nor would they spend their sigils for an equivalent % increase compared to sigil cost.
If the % increase to sigil cost is more valuable in future seasons, then that would amount to an admission that those of us who previously bought Seasonal gear are being screwed over.
To repeat the end of my previous comment our final take has been communicated. Existing seasonal gear will not be buffed. We will not be responding to any further asks for existing seasonal gear to be adjusted, or requests to alter the atlas gear plans.
Does it mean that next seasonal gear will be buffed?
Well then I would like Tor and Kayla’s gear removed from my account (gear purchased after the promise to buff it was made) and Avyx added to my account.