Balancing the dragon classes


#1

TLDR warriors and sorcs need a new identifying stats that plays into their identity that is easily balancable with the hunter ammo system

the hunters identity is a precision fighter and his attack pattern models it you can double finger 1 tower, 3 tap 3 towers, or hammer down one tower, or spread around the shots, there’s a lot of variety associated with their identity.
How about for warriors as their purpose is suppose to be the meaty beef cake thats suppose to just tank everything and plow though; maybe give that class a meter that as it attacks it builds up passive damage reduction that falls off in between islands, the percentage can be molded for balance, and it would give a specific attribute within the class you can easily control for general class balance.
Meanwhile give sorcerers a meter that as they attack, it builds up a free spell meter, tying into their identity as casters, while not paralyzing them if they have no rage, their slow attacks are at least still building towards something. The rate at which the meter builds off of the attacks can be easily controlled and balanced for cross class balance, and it gives sorcerers a unique trait that feeds into their identity
In this way each class would have a unique identifying trait, that is also easily tweaked to give balance between classes. Hunters you could change the recharge rate/max energy for their powerful precision shots. Warriors would get a bit of damage reduction to help tank and plow through an island(their damage still being low means theyre not supposed to clear an island, just plow over it, maybe maybe taking out a couple targets, and draining the enemy resources in the process(like super shots); and the value can easily be modified. While sorcerers would have a way of making an opening shot against islands even if their rage has taken a serious hit meaning they would no longer be sitting ducks waiting for rage to return; and again an easily controllable factor to balance the classes.


#2

This comment is for the sole purpose of bumping the topic so more people can see and comment lol


#3

I love your idea, I think it would be great if each class had a strong and useful identity. Hopefully PG will make every dragon feel special to fly, and like it has a place :slight_smile:


#4

Very recently they rolled out a hot patch that attempted to adjust some of the balance, so balancing things a bit is apparently on their radar.

IMHO, the changes they made to the attack speed is negligible, and has not impacted the general balance (based on my dragons - YMMV). They did noticeably improve Apophet and neutered Sage. I think they are working in the right direction, but this was a very small first step.

I do like your creativity, but I don’t agree with this. If the dragon can’t clear the island, what good is draining the super shots? The supershots are reset with each new dragon, so a follower would still have to deal with them; in war, if the dragon doesn’t clear an island the towers will be healed with hammers, so that dragon would effectively been a waste… it pretty much describes warriors in their present state TBH.


#5

Yea which is why I bring this up so the community can have a discussion as to what would make them balanced and viable.
How about this: warriors purpose is to live, tank, dabilitize the majority of the towers while taking out a few specific strategically important towers.
Mainly I feel each one should have a clearly defined identity and role. From there they should be given a meter similar to the ammo meter to both play into that role and allow pg to easily balance the classes on a whim.
So how would you define the warrior?


#6

Not knocking you or anything @Recramorcen - I’m with you in that this needs to be addressed :+1: I didn’t mean my post as an insult - I am for discussing ideas in hopes we can get some traction.

My opinion is that warriors should have enough attack power to be useful against bases with the appropriate towers for their spell set/resist. As they are now, even with the right resists, they just don’t have the power to take down big towers - especially when the hammers are flying. I also believe that is the most simple option to implement… warriors have more attack power and HP than the others, since their attacks are one dimensional.

As for sorcerers, I don’t know how difficult the coding would be, but I think they would be more viable if their attack speed were substantially faster, and if the projectile damage were possible to be more focused. What I mean is, say when you swipe across 3 towers, the damage is 60,000 total - each projectile inflicting 20,000 in damage (completely arbitrary numbers for illustration). But if you only swipe across 2 towers, you still inflict the total 60,000 - but it is divided by the two projectiles, so each inflicts 30,000 in damage. Likewise, if you decide to only target 1 tower, that would inflict the entire 60,000 on the one target.


#7

The problem with 1 or 2 resistance in my opinion is that while it does bolster the dragon against some base compositions, it’s not a universal beefiness; so usually somewhere on the island is something that will be able to tear the dragon to shreds. Not to mention just stacking resists takes away from having a functional spell kit to give the dragon its own unique playstyle.
That’s why I’m proposing a bit of a ramp up meter for the warriors offering passive damage reduction. That way warriors are less biased to specific base compositions. As for the damage personally I feel they should be able to take out 2 maxed defended towers(proportional to level) per island, tank/heal with proper maintenance a good chunk of the base, while dabilitizing the remaining left over towers in some significant way.

I agree sorcerers should attack faster and have more variance with their attacks. How about this; 100k attack, between 1-5 shots, but free spell rage is based on number of towers hit. So you can hit 1 tower for 100k but only get 20% of a free rage bar, or you can hit 5 towers for 20k but generate 1 free rage bar. That way you have to make a conscious decision of what has more value to you at what time. @ItsJustJoe


#8

Don’t worry no offense taken lol


#9

Warriors - I think we just have different takes on the solution - which is cool.

Sorcerers - interesting idea - and I generally like it, but there are spells that are already to gain the rage, so the ability to swipe across multiple towers to gain a bar of rage is almost like the spell sacrifice, plus northern lights also allows for additional rage generation. Additionally, I would imagine that would be a nightmare to code, and would be a HUGE change in the gameplay…

I really think the most viable solution is tinkering with the attack speed and power for each type and letting their spells and resists determine which bases they’re most effective for.


#10

While I agree each class has a purpose, I think we simply disagree on how to go about that purpose, Rec love. Which is fine. To each their own.

Red's Opinion on Dragon Types:

Warrior: Tank, take a brunt of the damage and survive the whole base. Maybe not take out a lot of towers, but they are hard as hell to take down.

Sorcerer: Mage, completely reliant on spells. They should be able to clear a base if it’s been set up perfectly.

Hunter: Rogue, can’t take a lot of damage but is really good at sneaking around and poking holes into things.

What Needs to Change

Warrior: I believe all warriors need to be better tanks, not just do more damage.

Hunters are the general damage class. I think that warriors should not get a general HP or attack boost. I think warriors should get an additional 10-15% mass resist added. Why a natural mass/everything resist instead of HP? Two reasons. Firstly, HP is directly related to many spells, and changing HP drastically would change the balance of spells. Secondly, since resists don’t always work with supershots, it still says “hey dragon, remember this will hurt you”.

Yes, I think the dragons are still reliant on good spell kits - but that’s a different story. Overall, I think warriors need this mass resist. This mass resist would stack with any resist the dragon has, or should. Warriors should be able to survive, that’s what should make them special. In my opinion.

Sorcerer: I believe all sorcerers should have an easier time casting spells than other classes.

Idea 1: All sorcerers have a rage regeneration of 150% and rage drains would last half as long. This would allow sorcerers to not be so dead in the water and actually get stuff done. They rely on their spells, and should have an easier time using their spells.

Idea 2: All sorcerers have a “rage bank” where they can gain 2 rage at any time during a flight. This, again, would allow all sorcerers to have an easier time to use their spells.

There are so many more ideas for sorcerers to become more viable, but I think it should focus on what makes them different (their spells) instead of trying to give them the same damage output.



I don't think all classes should have an equal damage output. We should amplify what makes them special instead of trying to make them a hunter.

#11

Agree I would only add that while they’re flying/leading they should dabilitate the remaining towers for the follower. Take out some towers tank the base, but most of it is still standing.

Very similar to what I’m proposing, but I guess the trade off would be you can either have a low passive amount across the board like you suggested. Or you can have a higher amount that ramps up over the course of the flight and maybe drops off a bit in between islands. Personally I think adding in a build up meter with a higher cap would be more fun as it’s something you have to focus on and manage rather than it just being there in the background.

Agree, I’m not sure if I wasn’t clear. But I’m proposing a whole new meter to be put on the sorcerers that build with attacking(untouchable by rage drain shots). That way attacking has some benefit(right now I more feel it’s just because you can hit), but adding in a damage or rage choice would make it a meaningful attack. Just adding a passive rage generation on sorcerers I feel would be a bit boring, and be more of a bandaid not a solution to the underlying issues within the dragon class.

Agree their main attack should be minimal in comparison to the hunter, but it should still have a meaningful purpose within the confines of the class identity.


#12

Love the suggestions on here! I think it’s really important for warriors and sorcerers to be balanced in line with hunters (as right now they are dominant as they work how they are true to their nature) so that each class is viable and really stays true to the nature of their class


#13

Yea Dave said he was interested in flushing out the classes so we need to brainstorm and give pg ideas so they can get these classes into shape.