Did Recently Banned Cheaters Skew the Data for Everyone?


Oh, please yes. This is exactly what needs to happen.

I wasn’t keeping close enough track at the time (of season costs and prizes). But I’ve read that to buy Phasmos outright would have run about $1,000. To do the same for Neptus, it’s closer to $3,500. I know my paycheck isn’t 350% what it was in 2016.

And not just seasons–maybe the “success” of all the grind replacement items was skewed by these cheaters as well. Cough, mega coin, cough.


This absolutely needs to be addressed. And it ties back to my argument in the ban thread that security through obscurity does not work.

It is not enough to identify the cheaters and keep tabs on them. They must be blocked. Patches must be released. Transparency with the players ensures this is being done. Hiding behind a wall of secrets hurts everyone.

This thread shows one of the ways that harm manifests itself.


Phasmos also stopped at Garnet tier, not Obsidian, which has also increased the number of progression prizes. It’s been 25k for the past two seasons; I don’t remember earlier than that, though Winter 2016 was 20.5k. (all sigil-wise, of course :joy:)

Edit: Also, not saying that I wouldn’t want things re-analyzed, but Garnet to Obsidian is a big difference. It also sucks leveling from Orange. :woman_facepalming:


Yes, but if the cheaters have been skewing metrics for any length of time, then even the progression rate is not what it should be.

It is very complicated. Especially when you factor in the competitive nature of the game. It is possible (and impossible to prove) that the progress of cheaters pushed others to make spending choices they would not have otherwise made. This is the whole psychology of an arms race. It’s true for governments, and it’s true for people in war games.


I agree, but I’m not convinced the numbers are truely as skewed as we would like.

Firstly I think that if PG executed this giant ban, they have been planning and analyzing data for a while, and may have already made adjustments. (Let’s hope not)

Secondly 1000 players isn’t significant in the total number of players, so some data would be skewed and not others. I do agree that it probably did screw drop rates for chests, and naybe seasonal prizes too.

I’m pretty sure since the first seasonal dragon they took an educated guess on the price point and have been adjusting it every since. Knowing how much the big spenders can and do spend on a game like this, and how much I spend, and how much low spenders spend, $3500 over 3 months isn’t actually as inflated as it might seem. I’m quite sure they target numbers with the intention that many won’t actually claim the whole line. None the less it will be interesting to see what they say and do.

I do wonder if mega coins were impacted by this. Thinking about it, it seems almost certain it would be cheaper to get a significant amount of sigils by just spamming mega coins (vs chest) since they are almost a direct ruby translation requiring minimal time. This event should be interesting to see if the points drop any.


i reached a few of them last year… hurt my wallet but i did. admittedly not the last 2. and unlikely will this fall.


You may be right. Part of me hopes not, but it is certainly possible.

1,000 players is not that many. I do not know how many total active players there are. But, if the game is at all like America, the top 1% has 40% of the pie.

I will remain hopeful. And I very much want to hear from PG on this matter.


The fact that this has become “the norm” in mobile gaming to spend thousands of dollars essentially for one in game item, not an entire game, one item, that’ll soon be outclassed and require to spend that again in a few months to remain competitive is depressing…

EAs much maligned loot crate model was comparatively nothing next to this.

Makes me long for the “good old days” of monthly subscriptions for MMOs


long live ultima Online!


Bring back the grind and lower the cost.

$3500. That’s almost 6 months’ of house payments for me, including taxes and insurance. True, I have owned my house for a long time, but that’s not really the point.


Great and interesting thread.

I disagree.
If I remember correctly there were over 200 players banned in Diamond league and several (mostly Arabic) teams were completely wiped out as they have been full of cheaters.

This means that the whole top league of this game was heavily affected and all the other teams and players had to play more and spend more to stay competitive against them and tons of global and team prizes went into the hands of cheaters.


But when you think about it, it shouldnt be any more expensive to max out a single line when comparing the max tier of evolution for the dragons. They are all end tier dragons so if next year there have been three new tiers released then the price for a single line should stay constand but the number of prizes should increase. Yes, it will make each individual line prizes cheaper, but it will also allow everyone to get the resources (tokens, clocks, shards, mystic frags, ect.) to catch up to top tier. Since the progression walls are almost exponential at this point then the usefulness of the first couple prizes is worth nothing to those working on the highest tier, and thusly gain very little but lose very little as well.

@TheRedDelilah shared an idea with me about making the personal progression prizes sclae to leagues. So only a certain number of personal progression prizes are available in each league, and the higher the league you are in the more personal progression prizes you can unlock. As she said “Push the whales man, push the whales!”


Hm…switch your brains on, all you guys. As i have already appointed - not all cheaters are banned. Many of them are still up. Many are running up from zero. And what is important - the most of cheaters are former lawful pg slaves - they paid alot before going to cheat.
PG is badly wrong in every aspect of game ballance. Cheaters will always be here and influence the whole WD community till PG changes there approach to the ingame progressing and prices for their quite poor and buged content.


By my estimates there are at least 280k active players (including alts) which is probably realistically a greater number than 300k. That’s 0.357% of the population. Even if you adjust that heavily for alts, we are only talking a few percent at a very worst case scenario.

Not going to disagree that a lot of cheating happened in diamond, but that wasn’t my point.

Diamond may have been ~ 50% of revenue, but that’s only 2500 players. The other 50% is in the hundreds of thousands of players.

My point is that it’s still more diluted than you may think.


Cheaters are cheaters. Doesn’t matter if they dont spend at all or spend car payments. I have confidence in PG that they will be able to process these cheaters to the point that they can make the scaling decisions on a correct poll of numbers.


Yeah but I bet your flaks don’t work😄


Not sure where your estimates come from.
When you use 20 egg tokens during breeding event or a stick of wood during fort event you will be ranked somewhere around rank 40.000.
Minus alts and minus players that just logged on once a week, there are way less active players in the game.
You could also count the amount of players that fit into Platinum to Diamond to get an estimate of active players.

As cheaters usually have a major advantage and game progression, you likely find most of them in the higher leagues were active, competitive and spending players are.
Let‘s say my team ranked 6th last event and one of the banned Arab teams ranked 5th. That means we missed out on the top 3-5 team prize and only got the top 6-10 team prize.
That‘s actually what happened for weeks and months while those teams were cheating (to all teams, not just mine).
Same goes for global rank prizes.


So true absolutely agree with you :pensive:


This was a lot of the “spenders” so I think it clearly skews the data.


There are somewhere in the neighborhood of 14,075+ teams. I averaged them for players based on league.

From diamond to platinum there are exactly 1175, having 55k+ players

Lots of people play the game different ways.

I do think it’s likely to be impacted, but it’s also likely pg has known about 1000 cheaters for more than a few months now.