Possible new primarch type?


#61

How are we suppose to level them then?

I guess via glory as well but with catastrophic stats we would need to invest a ridiculous amout of troops again.

Can’t the slimers be lv 1 only primarchs?

I mean it’s not really a strategy to kill troops on purpose to get a higher debuff rate aye?


#62

Yes, trapping (and/or killing) slimers will keep them from being able to use their ability.


#63

The King Poachers event we hinted at will be a great way to level Primarchs like this because primarch stats don’t affect king poacher battles … but they do pay out LOTS of glory. PROPOSAL - Atlas Event: King (of the Hill) Poachers (I think we’re going to launch the event as the Kingpin event, to avoid confusion with normal poachers though).


#64

The more I hear, the more I like the concept. I hear the argument that people with expensive bases will be angry they can no longer be an army of one. I think that to balance the game, some sacrifices will be needed. Big bases would still be very important, it would just push the big base to be with other big bases so that it wasn’t a single player holding on.

I feel like there is a huge amount of risk here. And the more I learn about troop usage on small players the more I’m convinced there needs to be something like this.

If I’m not mistaken, small players can transfer up to 200 troops a day to their teammates. My understanding is they used to be possible to transfer to other teams too, but it was used (abused) as a sort of protection tax, and taken away. I’m guessing the 200 max per day is also a result of that. That being said, there needs to be something small players can risk their troops on, and i for one am in favor of this idea. (Carefully tested and adjusted of corse)


#65

The problem with trying to make it so a level 400 base can be taken with small players is then why build your base… why do anything to increase defense if it will all be pointless anyways. This idea that we need to cater to small players to allow them to topple big players is becoming a bit too much. You invest your time and money in a game to be able to put yourself above other players. Not to bully or anything like that. But why would I have ever put any money into this game or played it every day if I knew that you would just create a system that makes it pointless. As for atlas versus reg game. Well let’s face it atlas is becoming war dragons.


#66

Of corse how it is implemented matters. But I don’t think that is at all the case. The idea is to require more of a team effort than an individual effort (I believe) - there are a lot of teams where 1 player is essentially the team.

First of all I doubt a small player could take a level 400 base (let’s assume level 100 is small) even with this feature. Either they would hit a limit or require so many players as to be impractical for a base difference of that magnitude. You would probably still need a level 250-300 combined with many players for debuffing (lets be fair though, plenty of obsidian entry level players can actually take a 400 with skill, and thus this is less about player level and more about dragon ability)

Secondly all of the players using the feature would have large amounts of troops exposed for easy kills by both the the person being attacked as well as the entire map. There is a strong chance people will develop the strategy of spotting this happening and then go in for the easy kills.

Thirdly, it’s not just for small players. I just view it as being a way small players can contribute (by being a debuff) rather than being mostly useless in the game beyond taunting and trapping. I see this as being a necessary tactic for some tough bases where the top 2 guys hit a level 500 with some
Debuff from their teammates which may or may not be small. Due to the vulnerability, it actually works better with larger players as they can’t be taken so easily.

Yes the risk is that someone comes in while you are sleeping and flattens your city. But welcome to the situation many are already in. (I also think additional protections could be merited. I like gox’s Idea of having troops goto recovery beyond capacity if the player is offline, for example)


#67

Yes but then you are making a primarch type that benefits only the small guy in a fight. @pgEcho even stated it would be unlikely for the bigger player to need this. So you are making a primarch whose sole purpose is to bridge the gap that people have spent money time and effort to establish. If those players want to be able to beat a 400 base they should put that same amount of money time and effort into the game as the 400.


#68

I’d like to point out that a lvl 275 player is a small player.

Yes he might have expert noctua, but lets get some perspective.

It takes less timers to from 1-275 than it takes to go from 315-365.

Thankfully I’m nowhere near lvl.450 etc, but most of the so called weaknesses of slimers can very easily be overcome with parking in the safe zone, and attacking when the other team is mostly offline. With a little bit of planning you will be able to kill 80k troops and retreat without any risk of taking losses other than the bit on the attafking prime.

Once again, the slimer isnt the issue, in fact its pretty much the primarch I suggested against big players griefing smallers (except that with the current slime mechanism it has offensive potential), you just need to tweak the exploitation potential around it as discussed previously in thread.


#69

I’m all for protecting investments, but we all know there is no such thing as a permanent investment. Regardless if it is the next dragon tier or the next set of tower levels, next research etc, this is very much a game of a constantly moving target. (I can’t tell you how many times my investments have been completely nullified). We all know that has and will continue to happen.

Anyone who spent mass money for the sole purpose of being forever invulnerable was not being realistic.

I would not advocate we deploy such a primarch without boundaries to limit its abilities. But it’s unreasonable to expect your investment will hold in perpitutity. The key is roll it out with thought and intent. (And I don’t have any reason to think PG would roll it out carelessly)


#70

The idea of having this is as much of a joke as how Atlas is right now. Instead of saying “a troop is a troop,” it should be more like Age of Empires or something where someone who is level 300 has machine guns and a level 100 has a spear. They are much more evolved. 500 machine guns will slaughter a much higher number of spears and that’s the way it should be.

The idea of Atlas is nice, but poorly implemented IMO. There should be no incentive for a diamond team to take over continents where sapphire 3 teams are. Or when platinum shows up, there should be little to no reward for sapphire teams to mess with them.

It should have been set up as follows: There are multiple continents for each tier broken up into countries. Level 5 and 6 countries exist for the “diamond” continent with a single level 7 the capital. Level 3 and 4 for the sapphire continent. And level 1 and 2 for platinum. If you want to go between them, sure. But the rewards are so much greater where it wouldn’t make sense for a team to move down.


#71

I don’t think stronger bases are much different than before Atlas. They have always had that level of immunity against lower levels so I see this as the status quo.
If the lower leve team is more active, they can wing their friends and attack with 5 dragons.
If the strong base owner and his team is less active, there will be noone to defend so it will be an easy win anyway, no need to make it that much easier IMO.

So I don’t see any reason to pare anything back down. We already have teamwork in this game and good teamwork is what makes teams stand out, win wars and climb ranks.

Maybe my point of view is too harsh, but I currently like the way the game is.
The core game is the core game, dragons fight towers.
Atlas is Atlas, primarchs fight each other with troops.

There are items in the core game which boost your dragons and bases, and items (primarch type, number of troops) that boost your battle outcome in Atlas.

What I would prefer is that Atlas and the core game work together, but they shouldn’t influence each other in a bad way.
I imagine that it’s already hard enough to balance dragons vs. bases and prims vs. prims. Now there are riders too that influence the core game.
But if prims influence bases, it’s probably going to be a crazy crossover which can hardly be balanced.

And I guess this is another opportunity for me to say it again:
What I (and probably most players) want is a game where strategic flying, planning and skill weights more than numbers.
So…

TL;DR:
Skillful flying should be rewarded and the focus should be dragons (hence the name of the game), not who can get as many Slimers as possible to make bases a walk in the park.

(not even mentioning the possible revenue drop if maxed out bases are just a matter of # of Slimers to wipe them out)


#72

This seems to be an oddly trending theme…how to make things worse and scale down rather then the goal to get better and push higher. It is really confusing.


#73

I suggested an alternative where slime makes your dragons stronger instead. But that makes slimers more powerful (if slime debuffs a target, then the effect goes away when you kill the target … if it’s a buff to the target, then the buff could enable the aggressor to use it to kill multiple targets … but on the other hand you can shutdown the buff by killing the slimed target). I think the debuff in this case enables more teamplay too – instead of buffing one player who can attack, many people on the team can attack instead.


#74

@MareZ I’m not sure if this was clear, but the slimed Primarch would be the only target that gets debuffed. Just that one Primarch. It wouldn’t affect other Primarchs, nor would it impact non-Atlas attacks (war, events, etc. would not be affected by slime!). Skillful flying is good, but it seems appropriate to reward skillful coordination too.


#75

@PGDave just one thing to look at during a battle. A lot of these are the culminations of weeks/months of saving and building and grinding. If you tell someone “you just devoted the last x amount of time/effort/money” so that they can basically not fly, not do anything, just be a slime-master and spectate…people are going to go nuts. I really, really think you need to make a lot of things more passive. It is a lot to ask people to invest that amount into something to just sit and watch.


#76

Like what? I have a feeling you meant to say the opposite, but maybe not. @Panda


#77

So looking at Atlas from the ground up:

You log in, you can do a few things but simply moving somewhere to even begin to think about initiating an action is a lot of time effort and planning. If you want to avoid pvp and just hit a mine/poacher you need to load up a primarch and go there. Not sure if this is a possible solution but…maybe you could make some sort of passive mining? Not sure. You could then let your player base decide, are they going to use this area for combat or for rss gathering, whatever other activity. But make it passive and simple. There are already a ton of actions you have to do. If you need to move to another area of the map, that is going to take a good amount of time.

If you decide once you can move around you want to engage in combat. Lets say, you want to attack, welp, you only have 1 primarch capable of that so you better hope its the right one and that is really close to what you are trying to get done or else thats another 30-60 min just to get it there. If you are defending, then you move your defensive one and it basically just sits there staring and you while your eyes glaze over watching it.

So, its a lot of time and effort just to get to the place so you can even think about doing an action, and it is so very team based that you pretty much cant do anything on your own so now you have to wait for x amount of people to join you. This means that all of the issues listed earlier grow exponentially.

So, if there is a way to just increase the passive growth of Atlas, streamline things so people can just do the actions faster (probably need to look at balance too), because this is all on the back of the core game so you have that whole other side to think about as well.

Hopefully that described some of what I meant by passive, not the game itself or player interactions but the more menial tasks to get there. Its like playing a war game but you have to actually go and harvest the wheat and bake the bread and watch the people eat. I get in reality that is part of the process but…people just want to do the fighting part mostly I think.


#78

Mining used to be passive, but at the time that approach was not in favor. We’re thinking about some passive missions (for riders) though.


#79

Well that wasn’t really passive…you still had to send your ship out, look for open mines. I guess there are different levels of passive, like food/wood level passive?

Would allow people to build more troops and then fight more for it?


#80

I think what @Panda is referring to as passive here is something like assigning functions which work in the background without further user interaction. An example would be troop training, this is a passive function where you assign your resources (gold and hats) to generate troops over time (6 hours for 400 troops) and requires no further interaction by the player.
Hats are therefore passively generated and gold is not. I guess an interesting mechanic to be considered would be to “assign” primarchs to a mine to generate gold and/or shards. So while you are offline, they are doing something. That said, the payoff is that they should be unable to defend castles/territory while “mining”. The rate of mining could be based on troops carried, again these troops would not be able to defend castles in a garrison or on a rusher/taunter. I wasn’t in the beta so I don’t know if this is similar to the system you mentioned before @PGDave but just some food for thought.