Possible new primarch type?


#101

@Panda Would you feel differently if the Slime buffed the attacking dragons instead?

It’s not clear to me that high level bases should automatically wallop strong coordination in Atlas. Atlas is a team affair, and bases/flying should absolutely play a big role in success … but completely thwarting a well-organized team may excessively undermine the teamwork pillar of Atlas.

I wouldn’t be too afraid if I was you; slimers aren’t a silver bullet to beat everyone.

(Obviously still exploring the idea, so it’s a good time to chime in. I was expecting you to chime in with this opinion ages ago @Panda :))


#102

I still don’t like the idea.

Look at it this way. Why are all troops created equal? We have a game built around upgrading tiers. Lets say sapphire is bow/arrow, garnet musket, emerald rifle, and obsidian machine gun. You are saying that 5000 people armed with bows have a shot at beating 1000 armed with machine guns? No. Just like how dragons upgraded, troops should too.

The real issue is that weaker teams shouldn’t have to attack diamond teams to get land. A diamond team can’t declare war against a sapphire team, but in Atlas you created an alliance/war free for all.


#103

I could be wrong but I find the simplicity to be rather elegant. The primarchs appear to be where that kind of thing is designed to happen. You can see there are already future tiers laid out in the GUI. I did think what If there was tier next primarch for each that exist with significant buffs and those were only available for teams holding level 4+ land. It might fix this problem by making stronger teams have stronger primarchs. But then it could also lead to one team owning all level 4+…


#104

So just trying to understand. When we say wallop, are we talking about in an offensive or defensive manner?


#105

I love the one team owning everything argument. It’s been shown since this started that it is just an impractical nightmare. Making tangible changes based on, at best, theoretical scenarios doesn’t really make sense. The problem isn’t even with trying to even out dragons vs bases. People were already gifted Noctua. It comes down to fair vs equal. What people want is equality. It’s like saying that if I have $40k I should also get a Ferrari. Why? Because i want one and someone else does. Did it cost $250k for him? Yes. But I want it.

I think it’s how teams compete. The biggest issue is when teams/players at hugely different levels compete over the same thing. Realistically for most of the game a level 4 island and a level 2 island are the same thing. The have neither the ability to build up the infrastructure nor the ability to defend it. What you have then are higher ranked teams hunting the lower ranked ones.

Think of it like the KOTH event. Can you win without taking Ashengard? No, but imagine if you could just control a bunch of the small ones and that would do the same is owning the top forts. That’s the problem with Atlas I think. You have high level diamond teams and lower league teams competing over the same thing because their is no tangible difference at this stage.


#106

So here’s an idea. I agree with balance issues and reading what you just said I think there could be a great way to balance things out and give higher level teams less incentive to conquer weaker teams.

Additional costs per territory to conquer. So what i mean is, everyone is allowed a set amount of territory to conquer “for free”. Maybe set it based on tier. You can have 3 tier 2, two tier 3, 1 tier 4 and pay more for anyier 5. So what should costs be? I would think troops and gold. So for each extra level 2 Base you want, you’d need to pay out 50k troops and 3 million gold. Then for each additional tier 3, 100k troops and 5 m gold. And so forth.

Yes there is upkeep already. What upkeep doesn’t solve is someone booting someone from their land for shits and giggles. Make it costly. And make it so that an island that is devoid of a garrison or primarchs of the owning team can only be camped on for 30 minutes or there abouts without it being conquered.


#107

Sort of except this doesn’t really solve the problem of getting attacked. That’s just land ownership. So maybe they won’t hit conquer but you’ll still get attacked :man_shrugging:


#108

When I read this thread only one thing is clear to me.

Slimers will come whether we like it or not.

Why was this even necessary? Bc some douchebags killed with their lv 400-500 base whole areas and evicted teams.

What’s the actual problem of atlas?

Being a world map and letting flyweights compete with heavyweight champions.

The idea was stupid in the first place.

League based atlas would have been the best decision here.

No platinum team appreciates having to compete with diamond teams and those are realistically just cannon fodder.

This whole thing needs to be reconsidered…


#109

I think there are pros and cons. There just isn’t incentive but the problem with league based is it is just sandbagging 2.0. That’s basically what Diamond II is.


#110

Honestly it’s not even the base that is the problem. It’s the fact that small bases can’t stop obsidian dragons(as they shouldn’t). Look at the comments. How does debuffing a max base accomplish that? It doesn’t. And if you’re going to just debuff it. Then I think a ton of people are going to get a lot of refunds. If your base can suddenly be worth 50% then I’m definitely getting 50% of what i spent back :man_shrugging:


#111

Yeah but I don’t mean league based on d1/d2/s1/s2 etc just

Diamond
Sapphire
Platinum
Etc

And regarding refund definitely second your opinion


#112

Limits might make this better?

D1 Team may have 100 island limit (conquer)
They can smash as many as they want but can’t conquer more
D2 80
S1 70
S2 60
S3 50
And below 40 (if they could even hold them)
No idea how big Atlas will be so just using basic numbers.

This would go with the flow of the game… go higher get better.

Also, when you have 75% of your max islands
you get a bonus (defensive or offensive)
85% another bonus etc
100% another bonus etc

As for the slimers how they would work would be better if you HAD to have 5 to even start the bonus!
So the form up like Voltron or some other attack!

What’s the defense to slimers?
Tower Watchers…

Each tower can have a Watcher Prime. If your Watcher Prime is parked at a base with a Tower Look out it could send an alert In Team Chat
“Enemy approaching” if it spots more than 2-3 slimers coming

Watchers can be leveled to see further… one island away two islands away etc or something like that.
And be adjusted to look for other primes too?
Maybe they look for slimers or Rushers or just other teams? Who are enemies on the watch list?


#113

Sadly that‘s what it feels like. Posting an idea on zhe forums and acting like feedback is considered but they probably already coded the damn thing.

I‘m sounding like a broken record but again: what happened to the other primarch ideas?
No need to be all stubborn about this Slimer idea when other prim ideas were much more welcomed by the community like the AoE damage prim…


#114

@marez I have my third Christmas in this game and one thing I’ve learned for sure.

When PG wants to do something they will persuade it till it’s done.


#115

PG proved this when they asked for feedback on Atlas Shields during PVP events in the main game, all the feedback was don’t do it, then they lubed up and did it anyways. At least with the slimers they probably won’t need the lube.


#116

Actually, the feedback was mixed and leaning towards “idc” prior to disabling shields. Afterwards, the response was overwhelmingly in favor of bringing them back, and they will be back for Thursday’s event.

The AoE Primarch is still in the works too. There was less to talk about with it because everyone seemed generally in favor of it.

The Slimer (now Sludger) has definitely gotten some heat, but sometimes what’s best won’t always be popular. Feedback has been integrated into the design though (in terms of how effective slimers can be, how they’re needed, etc.). Coordination and teamwork are kingly attributes in Atlas.


#117

So…theyre going to basically debuff a whole BASE? So Ettin can now solo max bases, this should be good. What is the counter to this? Other than they can be killed…because all primarchs can be killed. It just seems to be a mechanic where people are overcharged for their base on one end and then harshly punished in the new other half of the game?

I still think this is an absolutely terrible idea and I see a fair amount of refunds coming back from this, I havent seen any positive feedback from the player side. At best a team is limited by the number of them then can have and theyre MASSIVELY expensive. If a max base costs $50,000 to build and you are halving its value then that is $25,000. Are the expected costs of slimers around there @PGDave ?


#118

You can trap Sludgers to prevent them from using their ability, or (as you pointed out) kill them. Ettin is probably unrealistic unless you’re debuffing a level 50 base; Sludgers ability cannot infinitely debuff a base.

The bases aren’t worth half as much because of Sludgers. A high level base is still an enormous asset in war, core events, protecting your resources, etc. etc. etc. Bases were designed for that, and they’ve actually grown in value thanks to their newfound utility in Atlas. Atlas is about teamwork, and just like a solo level 500 base cannot win a war a solo, it may also fall if a large and well-coordinated team carefully orchestrates an attack against in Atlas.


#119

I think it is important that the be used more defensively then offensively. You can only trap if you have x number of rushers there though. I think as a whole though, an entire primarch JUST to sludge will get incredibly boring


#120

How material can the debuff get? Let’s say a max base full of 60s–how much can those towers get reduced? 50s? Lower? :flushed: