Although…define “win a war” a lot of the lower league teams basically have their strategy around defending the one big base…
@Panda Agreed; the Sludger’s primary goal is defensive – if one big giant comes lumbering into your territory, then you should be able to defend against it and not just sit there and watch them melt you. On the other hand, if a pack of giants comes lumbering in, it’s probably time to run away! Sludgers could be used offensively, but you’d be sacrificing other important components of an offense (e.g., siegers to debuff the enemy fort or other supporting primarchs to keep them safe). Panda recently suggested potentially making the Sludger a feature of Forts rather than a Primarch … this would enshrine its defensive capability, and is a very interesting suggestion.
@Spooky I’d been very tentatively planning to test Sludger debuffs starting at 1% (each) and growing to 8% (each) as you level them up. The total debuff would be capped at 50%. Or the debuffs could be applied serially (so you’d never get to zero). If we made the Sludger ability part of the fort instead, it’d probably be much stronger (since it’s just one ability and not coming from a coordinated effort of multiple teammates) … though perhaps the strength could vary with the number of members defending the fort (or recently defending the fort if some have died perhaps).
First rough draft of World War (closed; smaller, focused threads coming soon)
Honestly 50% still sounds like a lot. I am sure the math is not this linear but a level 500 base is now a 250 and a level 60 tower is a level 30. That would mean a max base is easier than the invader xp base…
How about just capping the maximum debuff a base can have at 30%?
Using say 8 sludgers that are level 15?
That would remove the “shield/sword” buff and is a BIG blow to any base?
Honestly I think the ability to apply this “condition” to a fort seems a lot more useful (aka its a defense mechanism against a “big” attacker), and its limited in its griefing potential. The question though is if its used in sequence on one prime after another, won’t it just stop all attacking teams? I think the correct use would probably be something with a cooldown timer – Aka it “sludges” a specific primarch for say ~10 minutes, but has a cooldown of ~20 minutes?
Yes, I agree, a CD would make the most sense, perhaps it could target the highest level first?
I’d prefer it to be “user selectable” by an officer or marshal
Otherwise easy workaround – run in with lvl 500 player with 1 troop on a fighter
Then the useful ones
Fair enough…automation is nice but hard to make sure it isnt beat too easily.
Couldn’t agree more sludgers should be a continent tower or maybe an addition to the fort upgrade which will be unlocked at lv 2 and can be leveled based on continent level.
That way you can protect your home just make sure @PGDave that th debuff works also when an ally attacks the debuffed base and is not limited to the team using the sludger.
For “open water fights” everyone is and should be in danger. If you risk to sail to enemies territory you need to understand that you can be destroyed every time.
Also moving around and having a more active map wouldn’t happen with sludger primarchs because the big players would stay home and wouldn’t risk to be sunk by every Tom dick and harry and making their investments irrelevant like @panda pointed out.
I absolutly favor the idea of making the Sludger a defense mechanism for forts instead of a primarch.
Also I think it could pressure the leader and officers if only they can activate it. Automation would be great IMO, we already complained about too many organizational tasks and too little instant action (although I know Atlas is about long term strategy).
Assuming you are talking about cutting attack and HP by 50%, that would reduce a level 55 tower to about a level 46 (Amoeba hasn’t updated to 60s yet unfortunately). Much easier for sure but not possible for a 2-3 month ftp account to trash easily. If you mean the tower levels get literally cut in half, that turns a ~20K USD full 55s base into something virtually worthless.
I’d start with the Sludger as a fort addition and see how it goes (with reasonable cooldowns etc as suggested). It seems that most of the (understandable) complaints are coming from lower level teams gettting griefed by high levels camping out on their castles. Giving a tool to fight back without causing further griefing issues seems like a smart suggestion to me.
Agree. Shouldn’t be a primarch. Should be an upgradeable item in a castle.
Thanks for everyone who contributed to the direction of this new feature. It took a lot of collaboration and writing (131 posts over nearly three weeks, including the holidays!) but I think we’ve arrived at a solution that will likely get the job done well.
I’ve stayed out in this discussion although reading with interest, but I feel the conversation is very one-sided in contribution. Almost everyone seems to think the sludger prime as a defensive/offensive unit is a bad idea, and coincidentally these voices are generally from big teams. Of course they don’t want their impenetrable defence reduced in any way when they (or a few team members) spent so much money on it. I understand that and it appears a reasonable argument.
So the natural “compromise” they are pushing for is to put the debuff power on their forts so that everyone can have a “fair go”. Let’s be clear, this in no way goes towards balancing the field. It allows close to equal teams able to defend against an equal’s attack a little better when they are online to retaliate. i.e. the big teams will have a few more mechanisms at play in their attacks/defences but won’t really see any significant change in their dominance.
There are a large number of payoffs in using this primarch that are a bigger disadvantage than is being appreciated/portrayed here, most particularly that the team using it has to sacrifice prime slot(s). It only takes one rusher to disable a sludger debuff and then that prime is worse than useless. If the debuff was to be partly based on troop numbers held on the prime (making them unavailable for attack), this would significantly decrease the offensive potential of the attack as a whole. The same is true for defence, the sludger could debuff the taunter base to be able to get to the real threats. I see no problem with the original idea if implemented properly.
Of course we know exactly how this will play out, as soon as it it released the big teams will have maxed ones and will see very few used against them. I don’t want to insult anyone but it really feels like the arguments here are purely to maintain status quo in Atlas.
I feel this is at least moderately true here as well.
It’s hard to convince established folks who have significant investment (and suffered through much worse to get where they are) that increasing competition makes the game more fun.
There is a very real danger of abuse, so the coin has both sides, but I think we have become change adverse and we need to experiment with changes that may be unpopular, but in a limited capacity to prevent widespread overnight instant death.
I’d like to see a slimer/sludger fried in a very weak
Fashion and see what happens. And maybe increase it slightly if the wold doesn’t end (possibly
With lessons learned)
But I agree that the folks on the forums generally strongly oppose it. I doubt my opinion has any weight and hopefully PG does what is best for the game and not what’s best for direct profit or pleasing the established. (Not that we should ignore profit or options of those who have been around to experience aspects I don’t.)
First rough draft of World War (closed; smaller, focused threads coming soon)
Atlas Feedback from non Atlas players
I think you would be suprised how much weight your opinions has In a good way.
Logical arguments are always great, and I think pg, and especially @PGDave has done a tremendous job and something quite unique, in incorporating as much player feedback as they have.
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