Riders - From Blah to Yay (Part 2)



Hi Again Everybody!

This is a continuation from this previous thread seen here (Riders - From Blah to Yay)
It was a brainstorming session to come up with a list of crazy ideas to fish for unique ideas for some riders and i have summarized
This new thread’s purpose is to dive into balancing; aka making them unique enough to be of significant value, while making sure that they aren’t too powerful and skewing the game one way or another. This can be done in terms of limiting uses, scale-able %'s, fixed %, etc. You are the ones who should be throwing out suggestions here on what you would like to see but keep in mind that this time we are trying to find a BALANCED skillset for these riders.
Same warning as the last thread, please keep everything CONSTRUCTIVE and if you want to buff/nerf any of the suggested ideas please just don’t say “buff” or “nerf” or “no”. Provide feedback based on analytical or empirical data or player self experience to help us narrow things down. some players at some levels WILL have a different opinion, and we can always try to build a case for buffing/nerfing/scaling due to level or tier or something that makes sense. We can/should also be able to make pairings/triples of skills that we want users to choose between, and we should/can be able to indicate whether this is a skill that should be available in the lower levels of the rider, or whether it should be one of the last ones attained.
The OUTPUT i want from this list is a community generated set of skills to formally propose to PG of well thought out dragon riders. We can include either full sets of skills we want to see, or pairings/triples that we would want to force the user to choose between in the branched offerings.
Summary of Skills in previous thread:

Attack Riders

General (to all classes)

  • Rage Regen
  • Skewed stats (90% offense / 10% defense, or the other way around, or all towards a certain stat/skill, even 150% offense / -20% defense would be worth discussing)
  • Firepower style swap (tap to hold to swipe, basically changing between hunter/warrior/sorcerer for main fire style. Would be changable through the rider menu, perhaps not during the run but discussable)
  • Single use “gain x rage” add on spell (white sacrifice without hp loss)
  • Double consumable spell amounts (use consumable twice the amount of times originally intended)
  • Add extra consumable to dragon (ability to have 6) corrected from 5 to 6
  • Separate offense and defense skill trees. Only 1 attainable
    multi-elemental type, so that this rider may accept ANY gear as well as be transferrable to ANY dragon.
  • Rage stolen by mages reduced (by 0.5 or 1?)

Hunter Rider:

  • +x Ammo Skill
  • Buffs to basic hunter spells (healing mark, cloak)
  • Free hunter add-on spell (0 rage, 1 per run, cloak or healing mark, dragon does not have to have skill to use)
  • Ammo regen buff
  • rage Regen

Sorcerer Rider:

  • +x Swipe lock on
  • Buffs to offensive spells (as a whole)
  • Buffs to defensive spells (as a whole)
  • Free sorcerer add-on spell (tbd)
  • Rage Regen
  • Swipe freeze possibility (5%? every 5th swipe? Random % chance just like the stun research feature?)

Warrior Rider:

  • HP Increase skill
  • Add on resist (not naturally occurring, but rather an extra add on spell)
  • Free 0 rage regeneration (white, usable once, similar to nolleig)
  • +x Rage Bar (up to 6 from 5) with increased rage regen + starting rage

Defense Rider

  • Construction time (already have this but still including it)
  • +1 of each mage color per base
  • Buff 1 tower +x% attack and defense (selectable, cooldown)
  • Double firing rate of 1 tower (selectable, cooldown)
  • Double duration of attack/defense boost (tower)
  • Double duration of attack/defense boost (in active defense)
  • Add second rider to perch
  • Reduce research cost
  • Increase token yield from zeppelin missions
  • Swap between tokens/timers/ember/etc on zeppelin missions
  • Incubate two eggs at once
  • Change the element of a tower type (dark -> fire -> ice) for flaks
  • +1 mage shot for free when defending
  • Perch dragon buffs (health, attack, supershots) extended to previous island, reduced to 0 only when perch is killed
  • Increase RSS PROTECTION in storage
  • Increase RSS Transfer amount by %
  • Move a perch?
  • Decrease defensive consumable cooldown time (hammer, shield, sword)
  • Increased chest drop rate during runs
  • Perch supershot? (heal all buildings on the island? Restore dead towers on the island?)
  • Fog of war (can’t see a certain island on the previous screen, is selectable by rider, appears to have nothing on it, in for a big surprise come war time or was that just a bluff?)


Adding second rider to perch… is this two riders on one perch or one rider on two different perches?


Can be either or. State your case for either/each one :slight_smile:


I think 1 rider per perch makes more sense… but having up to 3 available would be nice.


I’m surprised they haven’t released a defender rider.

So far, the riders have been neutral in regards to dragon type. I would suggest specializing them to one of the season dragons… The half price rider should be specialized to one of the legendary dragons and then the rider requiring two dragons should be specialized to the mythic. yes it would make it extremely difficult to get both, but you could still use the rider on other dragons and just loose the specialized enhancement to one of the two ghostfire spells (for this season).


I suppose you’re talking about the season lines?
Because there is a defense rider ingame which is only obtainable via Atlas.

Sooner or later we might see a defense rider in season lines, however there are only so many perches you can use on a well built short base.


Okay so here is my first proposal:

A new Hunter Rider!

  • I have put a lot of thought into the skill tree to make it a very tricky decision which final skills you want to unlock while making it impossible to unlock both of them - the choice is yours!

  • The left part of the skill tree was inspired by the dragon rider Tor: It gives very useful buffs to your HP and ATK stats but also leaves the choice open whether you want to choose both lines for balance, or only skill the upper or the lower line for more focus on ATK or HP.
    The overall cost is very cheap, allowing beginners to collect many useful boosts with little rider skill points.

  • The middle part was inspired by ideas from this proposal. The player has the choice to skill one, two or even all three branches that all result into one very useful must-have: Additional rage generation.
    The two most commonly used hunter skills can be boosted, which is Cloak and Healing Mark.
    Since Cloak duration is already buffed by Runes, I have decided to pick the healing while cloaked which was already introduced via the Research Hall but is extremely hard to achieve for the majority of the player base.
    Healing Mark can also be boosted, similar to the way Runes work. For reference: A max level Legendary Healing Mark Rune adds +88% healing.
    I was thinking about what else to introduce here which can be used by all dragons, even if they don’t have Cloak or Healing Mark. I came up with something that matches the nature of agile and precise hunters: A chance to dodge incoming attacks. To not make it overpowered, the multiplier is fairly low so it kind of adds a small gambling factor to your playstyle if you want to go for it.

  • Lastly, there are two very expensive skill branches, you may choose one: More Ammo regeneration to unlock the final +2 Ammo skill, or going for the risky reduction of HP which is rewarded by twice the increase in ATK!
    The first option is great for basically any hunter flier and easy to profit from in any situation.
    The second option is great for high risk-high reward players that play extremely skilled by dodging most of the incoming attacks and especially for dragons used to clean a well set base.

For any balance concerns, here is a comparison between then New Hunter Rider and the Atlas Riders:

In addition, here you can see some possible skill tree configurations that could be quite popular:

Looking forward to your feedback :wink:


“% chance to dodge incoming attacks”… is that just an enigmatic way of saying that much damage from offensive towers would be reduced? Or am I just missing something?


Um, I thought it was fairly clear that there was a small percentage chance that the attack wouldn’t hit the dragon at all.


I think this is pretty straight forward, except for the hunter attack/hunter negative hp. I like the concept, but seems like it will need some serious playtesting for balancing. If you put that skill on a hunter that has invincibility (with duration increase from research) you can pretty much kiss any short base goodbye… as an example of how it might be OP?

Should also add a thank you for your work so far! :slight_smile:


Wow, thanks. That really cleared it up.

To make it clearer, my question is how can there be a “chance” of dodging projectiles? It does or it doesn’t. Seems that I’m missing something or overthinking so would like it if people wouldn’t mind enlightening me.


@Ebony @Shadelos I took the idea from the proposed ideas in the OP and already tuned them way down but yes, this is still just an idea and would have to be discussed, playtested and tuned.

I thought this could make a hunter even more a glass cannon that needs a lot of skill or a well set base or it will die quickly.
On the other hand, something similar could be made for warriors, just the other way around to make them real tanks… :smiley:


It’s a probability of the dodging happening. Most of the time you get hit. But sometimes you’d get lucky and the shot would miss. Maybe the rider is wearing dazzling mirrors that occasionally throw off the towers aim when the sun hits the mirrors just right :laughing:


Dodge is basically a permanent state of what was already coded for the Evasion skill. It goves you a certain chance to evade some of the shots.
(I was looking for easily-implementable code)


Just providing a probability isn’t enough information. Over how much time in the run would this be? Every x seconds, every x minutes, etc.? Once per run with no reset? How is the projectile itself determined? Would tower supershots be implicated? Etc etc…
I don’t think the game needs that level of intricacy. Perhaps instead, y% damage from x towers will be reduced or something similar to that would be a lot simpler.

Still feel like I’m looking at it wrong, but either way just a probability or percentage isn’t enough information.


If the number were low enough, I’d say it should be for every attack launched at the dragon. Either way, we’re looking at the idea of it. Balancing would need to be done on any case.


My opinion would change depending on the answers to my 3 main qs above. Forget about balancing; that’s just numbers. A probability provides a very one-sided piece of information that has little to do with what would be happening in the actual situation. That’s what I’d want to know.



First off, thank you for your very insightful and data oriented post. This is exactly what we needed to get the ball rolling. Some data points of how many skill points it would take, a proposed shape for a branch, as well as some numbers to fill in to give an idea of the overall skills that could be achieved.

I really think that your proposal hits the nail on the head with what i was envisioning. A pretty standard beginning set of skills to give a good buff to both attack and defense (+10/+10). This goes along with being a purely offensive rider, with little to do with debuffs or resists, and focuses more on raw power than spells.

In the middle section i really like the branch option to choose between healing mark, the cloak heal, or the constant evasion.

  • Evasion: I think this would be just a skill that happened for all projectiles coming to the dragon during every run. Setting this at a low value of 2.5% is a great idea to give the dragon a chance at dodging 2 or 3 shots every base, this is something that I agree would be easy to code (evasion, speedup set to 1.00 and rate set low, constantly equipped and could even show as a “spell” if necessary)
  • HM pretty standard and would just add to current healing mark spell. 25% to base healing mark however doesn’t seem like a lot since it ends up being 2.5% overall which is less than a rare rune. Perhaps make it 63% like a maxed epic rune would make the choice more difficult or obvious depending on your dragons needs.
  • Heal while cloaked to mimick the research, but i think this may have to be buffed a little bit like the research item was. Maybe something significant like +1% per skill for a total of 5%?

In the end i really really like the split of ammo regen/more ammo vs a HP decrease combined with the attack increase (in that order). This would allow different players who have different skills to benefit. An extra 30% attack would be very very amazing if your dragon had proper healing or dodging skills to make up for the HP loss, but you would have to weigh this against the extra ammo regen rate with extra shots at the start of each island. I like the numbers as they are but would be willing to take a look if someone crunches the numbers further based on damage done at the start of islands and provides me a nice graph with assumptions.


See my reply for my take on it. Sorcerer already have a research stun % feature that is low like this, allowing ~2 towers to be temp stunned per round, this would simply allow the dragon to randomly dodge one or two projectiles a base. Nothing earth shattering, but fun none the less and constantly active. % could be tweaked up to 5% or 7% to give the other choices a run for their money, or it could be left low and used for dragons without those two specific skills.


Thanks for the feedback!

  • Chance to dodge (permanent evasion):
    Thanks for explaining how the dodge chance would work, that was exactly how I had it in mind, basically it’s what we already have in the Evasion code.
    I set the % low to not make it too overpowered and to have it around the same value as the sorc stun research.

  • Healing Mark:
    I agree a 25% buff is probably a little too underwhelming, 60% would be a nice round value that can go up in increments of 12 like 12%, 24%, 36%, 48% and finally 60%.

  • Heal while cloaked:
    I didn’t want to make this as strong as the research so players that got the research won’t feel like having wasted tons of tokens, so I would definitely like to keep it below the reseach value. But I forgot that research was buffed to 15% heal so I guess 5% seems fair enough, considering most players rarely use the full cloak duration anyway.

I have added the new values in my post above.
I have also divided the possible skill tree configuration for offensive tactics into two configs that both show the sum of ATK and HP added: “Offense” and “Kamikaze”.