Upkeep Changes to broaden land ownership


#1

tl;dr

  1. Upkeep will no longer be free at castles with no HQ. This is going live Tuesday and patches a long-standing loophole.
  2. (proposed) Upkeep unpaid → castle lost & garrisoned troops are teleported home / friendly castle
    • Infrastructure goes into storage with the usual level loss
  3. (proposed) Send a warning to the team (via mail?) if upkeep hasn’t been paid and is due in 24hr. Ideally with a link that takes you right to the place that lets you pay upkeep.

One of the key changes buried in the thicket of the world war proposal concerned upkeep. The original purpose of upkeep was to attach a cost to ownership so that the optimal strategy wasn’t simply to conquer the entire world. Atlas is more fun when you own territory, and this cost helps ensure that everyone can has a fair shot at owning something an improving it. These changes will give upkeep the teeth necessary to prevent teams from gobbling up more territory than they can use (right now, there are indeed some teams who have so much territory that some of it doesn’t have any benefit*, other than they can travel through it unimpeded).

(*) Territory ownership has diminishing returns. Each additional piece you own adds a little bit less. This makes it important for top teams to own a good amount of high quality land, instead of a glut of weaker lands that are well under their power level.

If you have any feedback or changes you might make to further or better advance these goals, please share and discuss below!


Feedback for First rough draft of World War
#2

This seems fine provided there is also the warning mail before upkeep is due. Ideally to all officers, leader, and the players with a role assigned on the continent in question


#3

What if it’s “taxed” at a higher rate if paid within x amount of time? At said time limit, that’s when it can cutover to option 2.


#4

Finally. Thanks for doing this. We are all waiting for some kind of reminders for governors/officers


#5

Would also like to see a dashboard of all assets owned so they can be managed from one place Vs clicking on every island and then click on every item on each island.

We want to fight and burn bases not click a 100 times a day trying to check on builds, expedites etc.


#6

1 & 3 are good

I’m up in the air about #2

As for the bottom part I don’t mind after so many territory’s the the rewards are lowered for the next one…
So say you get 10 territory’s at full reward but the 11 is deducted 25% (or some %)

My question is can this be seperated per element?
So say there is 5 elements, you get 2 terretorys per element (10 total)at full reward and the 3rd is at a deducted amount…


#7

Yep @iDREAMiKILLERi, diminishing returns are currently applied on a per-biome basis with respect to crafting material rewards! The diminishing returns only applies to buffs of the exact same type (e.g., XP bonus, fire crafting material bonus).


#8

so Is this based on bases owned or terretorys owned?
If territory’s how do shared terretorys work?


#9

Love this.
Land will just suddenly appear vacant and up for grabs for attentive / surrounding teams.
You’ll need a cooldown. The team that let the Upkeep laps should be unable to recapture for 24-48 hours. Else they will just move right back with a reset the payment countdown.


#10

Standing ovation. I’m not sure yet if this will be the magic bullet, but I think this is the kind of issue we needed to be looking for to fix/improve land distribution issues.

Well I like the idea of more serious consequences to not paying upkeep, If this is a manual button push I think more should be done in the way of automation. (Let’s not start a new season of lost)

In the same way that a bank could be setup with another account or credit card to avoid overdraft, I think it should be possible to setup auto payments, and maybe allow for an amount you can go into the red without self destruct, and maybe even a period of time plus notifications before actually evicting.

I think this is a must if we are evicting on non-payment. I almost feel like atlas is going to have enough notifications needed for real-time stuff that there almost needs to be a whole notifications system or revamp of the existing notifications. I feel like if somehow it isn’t paid you may even go to a point of like a red banner for the entire team for the last 4 hours or something. I might be overthinking it, and I’m not really a land owner.

On the topic of notifications, I think there are shortcomings I think I want to bring up. Mostly that on tablets (or iPads anyway) there is no vibrate so things that need to get our attention with a vibrate have often no audio and no vibrate and I feel like some small tweaks here should go a long ways. (Also every update has a chance of resetting notifications to off)


#11

I confess I kind of regret not weighing in on the remarkable World War proposal last night. And by remarkable, I refer to the classic meaning of simply worthy of notice/remark. I was too tired to go through it line by line so I’m glad there are sub-proposals today to deal with ongoing issues without radically upending everything at once.

With my preamble concluded, this is the sort of change I’ve been in favor of for a while…adjust incentives so large teams won’t want to control outsized land holdings. To that end:

  1. It would be helpful if we could see how little (or much) each land holding is contributing to our bonuses to best optimize the portfolio.

  2. I agree that some sort of notice should be required before teams are evicted from castles, a mail to the leaders and officers should suffice.

  3. Finally, it would be great if we could have some sort of direct debit system for upkeep, with an overdraft feature to pull from other controlled banks if needed. Clicking through banks to check upkeep is a reminder of the bad old days of Maersk middle-manager roleplay of early-mid beta…


#12

Questions:

  1. How much lead time will we have to pay upkeeps initially( on castles w/ no hq)? 1hr, 1day, 1week?
  2. How long will an upkeep buy on a castle w/ no hq?
  3. Will PG actually initate this patch without the upkeeps reminders included? ( that would be sadistic imo)

Thanks!


#13

by the looks of it none @PGDave so far i have 7 islands saying upkeep not paid but have a HQ level of zero


#14

@iDREAMiKILLERi I’m not sure I quite follow your question. Each castle provides buffs. Buffs stack additively, with diminishing returns. Region plays no role (except that higher level regions provide higher level buffs).

@Atops Good point. In practice I’m not sure how much of a problem it will be, but it could certainly be abused if there isn’t a cooldown. I’ll work that into the change.

@EidolonRM We’ll start sending automated reminders when upkeep is unpaid. Hopefully that’ll provide teams more than enough fair notice, though if not let’s circle back after the automated reminders are in.

@Spooky One of the next mini (or just normal-sized, lol) proposals I’ll put out as a separate thread will be around how bonuses work. This will include some ideas about how to better visually communicate this to players so that teams can effectively optimize their holdings. Hard to blame the teams which hold a glut of land – I suspect some don’t realize that the additional land isn’t helping. It’s quite hard to know right now since the source of bonuses aren’t well communicated. Re upkeep autopay – maybe in the future. It has definite downsides though (e.g., a team which conquers new territory should be able to intentionally stop paying upkeep on an old territory in order to get rid of it when/if they no longer want it).

@BAZ1NE
(1) Normally, I believe the the first 10 days are free (when conquering a never owned castle).
(2) Upkeep is currently due in 10-day increments.
(3) I plan to release upkeep reminders first.


#15

Yeah I think that’s fair but I also think it’s important not to have buttons that need to be pushed redundantly. For the purpose of keeping it simple, I think it’s fine to send notifications at first, but I really think atlas is becoming a death of a thousand cuts with so much manual steps that add complexity without a significant strategy beenfit. I didn’t realize it was 10 days between payments.

Is there not a summary screen of all land/holdings that shows its benefit or lack there-of? I don’t believe there is, but could there be?

I suspect the land is helping them in ways not necessarily intended. A good chunk of people who play war dragons are OCD, and have the gotta collect them all mentality. There is nothing more visually rewarding than grabbing a ton of land and changing big visible tiles to a color of your choosing. This alone is reason to pay for more than rewards merit. (It’s also a reason some teams over extend themself)

I also know a number of teams grab extra land for strategic reasons like mobility, and gifting to future alliances, etc or bartering with.

Couldn’t you just add an abandon button without too much trouble? I could also see auto pay being something you have to setup, and could disable.


#16

Oh, definitely. I was considering something as simple as an “Autopay” toggle for each castle under the bank submenu (defaulted to yes) so you could opt out if desired.