30 day glory lock is bad

Actually as I pointed out to Moonswirl in a private chat I was going to do a data dump so I’d never have to do stupid debates again and could just quote from the same post.

It’ll work.

Too bad I laid it out without explaining the basics because I assumed people could extrapolate.

False. Gates are a problem because meatshield teams are a thing is what I said.

There have been suggestions made to mitigate this before. Perimeter travel was one. This was also one.

FTFY. Mega alliances exist because it’s in human nature to group up to make up for where one is weak. It’s not a bad thing in and of itself; 5tas are a game mechanic that support this teaming up.

A mega alliance is specifically bad because there are teams within it that will never have cause to help each other but are still obligated to not attack each other. At the top end the top teams in a mega alliance call in many hundreds of primes at once in the name of hindering the ‘enemy’, except half the teams that show up know each other only in passing and only for the express purpose of minimizing Atlas conflicts.

If mega alliances were a problem that needed no fixing, friendly fire wouldn’t be a thing. In failing to stop the formation of mega alliances, PG has been supporting them.

Quote quote quote.

(midlevel management, fyi, refers to the people who hold megaalliances of hundreds of inactive plat and sapphire teams together for no other reason than them allllll being afraid of conflict.)

A megaalliance is any alliance that takes in useless teams to avoid conflict. This is all alliances in this game, because it is not penalized and is in fact marginally helpful.

Larger teams play at breaking away and striking out, but all such alliances make no-hits, because it’s impossible to survive without them. You’ve heard the propaganda, you know what will happen if a smaller faction strikes out on their own otherwise.

They’re just smaller fractions of the same two megaalliances.

Yeah there’s always a loser. People absolutely hate losing in this ‘war’ game though. Maybe it’s really just a real estate game.

You seem to agree that people should be fine with losing troops. Remind me why you dislike pirates again?

Because they were intended to actually be challenging and not glory farms.

Here’s my impossible question to you: given that you’ve read this whole thread, why are pirates the only ‘problem’ you seem to have a concrete solution to fixing?

That’s easy. Because it’s the only one I cared to provide a solution to. Actually I provided more solutions than that but who cares it’s not important to this discussion.

Also I don’t have a problem with pirate teams they are at the core of this mechanic problem though.

Glad we agree that mega alliances are a human problem not a mechanics one. PG won’t stop them because they can’t stop them.

Perimeter travel was essentially allowing free travel. See how well that went down?

Even the floating islands doesn’t prevent meat shields.

It shakes things up a little but that is all.

It’s as good as a solution as perimeter travel was: solves the symptom at first glance.

My entire post was pointing out that this was untrue.

PG can’t stop alliances. PG can stop mega alliances.

Alliance good. Megaalliance bad.

Also you can’t set up a straw man with a flawed solution PG produced.

If you can somehow convince and incentivise smaller teams to never bubble within the one week they gate for you, you honestly deserve the meat-shield…

Not to mention how you’re occasionally the access castle yourself, which means you don’t even need meatshields in the first place. That solution does devalue positioning on the map though.

You could say the same about the 30 day glory lock.

Except the 30 day glory lock hurts legitimate, non-pirate players who want to move between teams, and is therefore actively harmful and should not be a thing.

I’m just the person who’s asking you to actually offer solutions rather than passion. I’m not the one holding up a mechanic or behavior as horrible or game breaking so I guess the strawman is yours.

If read rather than fume I’m trying to refine your arguments and get them to something that is actionable.

This includes the mega alliance argument because I am still to see a solution that is even remotely useful or actionable.

So instead I’d shouting you’re right think about it and try to find a mechanic to fix your perceived problem then try and poke holes in it.

If can’t don’t act like you can.

I will say it again this is a mechanic to correct a behavioral problem that player feedback made pg feel was an important issue.

We both agree that it wasn’t. (Well I don’t think it was an issue that required intervention you seem to think it was a bad solution to one that did but I could be misreading you) give actionable solutions or accept that the solutions offered may not be the ones you want.

But I have. On separate threads. There was the one about floating regions; which erases most of the incentive for alliances to group together on a
map.

There was the thread about making smaller teams.

Are these not solutions?

They’re different threads.

This thread is specifically about how a 30 day glory lock is a bad solution and should not be a thing.

I don’t need to make a solution for 20 other mechanical problems about a bad game in a thread that was really only about abolishing a bad solution; the whole block of text about pirates and bad pg mechanics was intended to slash pirate-blocking as a counterargument to the point of my thread. I also honestly do not see a need to think deeply about and refine solutions to problems that aren’t even recognized as problems by the developers yet.

I’ve yet to see a proper counterargument against it.

We do agree on this.

If a solution offered is bad, the solution to that is to remove it, not accept it.

Psst. Don’t confuse my personality with passion. I know full well what I’m saying. Feeling insulted by my posts because you identify with the target audience is one thing! Conflating that with it being an irrational arguments is entirely another.

Arrogant? Maybe!

You stepping in to play the devil’s advocate is honestly unnecessary in a thread where it’s obvious that the devil in question is an idiot.

Once the Atlas changes are implemented this should not be an issue any longer.

PG had said they would be implemented early on this season but yet here we are near the end and nothing yet.

My guess is they either aren’t ready or decided it was too late in the season to implement them By the time they were ready so hopefully :crossed_fingers:t2: we will start the new season with a new map and they can remove this mechanic.

@PGNines Shouldn’t this be removed once changes to the map are implemented? And off topic, sort of, can we expect the changes at the beginning of next season?

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Wasn’t unreasonable. I was just pointing out that social follows mechanical. Not debatable; rl is full of examples where the only way to stop the formation of mega alliances (or their equivalents) is to put laws or rules in place to make them illegal or otherwise impossible (and even then this frequently doesn’t work). Actually, it would be more appropriate to say social follows mechanical follows social (which is pretty common for all human systems tbh). They don’t have to be bad. They’re bad in this game, however, at least in current iteration.

But mega alliances aside.

I then listed some very specific mechanics that directly gave rise to pirating. That’s what you asked for, named mechanics that caused people to leave teams and switch back.

I’m not clear you understand why this is so however, as your responses to Kate indicate you appear to have already decided it’s simply a behavioral problem (if you have a psychology degree, you should ask for your money back, as they forgot the whole foundation that behaviors generally don’t happen in a void either lol).

Separately, the no gates = pointless map argument is flat out stupid. Sorry not sorry. Access can be addressed in ways that leave opportunity for strategic movement in place but don’t require “bullying” 3 small teams and fighting 4 others you have no desire to actually hit just to get to where you want to go.

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I agree with Kate. Someone shouldn’t be glory locked for 30 days after staying for probably 5 days. So, because that player stayed for 5 days, he’ll be glory locked 30 days. This person typically kills 5million to 6million troops per month, but because of the glory lock he’s only killed 2million. Which he should have about 4million or 5million by now. No one wants to hit for bad glory and neither do I. Maybe PG should change it to where you’re stuck with the glory for the amount of days you were on that team. Nevertheless being on a team for 5 days shouldn’t make him glory locked for 30 days.

Will still need a hard cap on minimum. Or else, they can do an hour jumping

Or make it progressive. First jump give you glory lock for 3 days. If in that month you jump again, the lock Increased to 10 days. The third iteration is 30 days and it stays like that.

The lock will be resetting again if you are not jumping in 30 days (or any specified amount of days).

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or 90, since that’s the period of a season. :smirk:

Yeah I see your point there. I still think 30 days is too much considering he was on the team for 5 days. I don’t know how they’ll fix, but in my opinion it should be no longer than 2 weeks.

9 days is MORE than enough to shutdown folks jumping around for glory.

I agree. When I went to EQ for a week I had their glory for a month. Teams that normally gave me 100% turned to 70% for a month.

We are going to shorten it. I think we will go down to 14 days. I will know tomorrow how long it will take to get that change in (I’m hoping it’s fast as in deployed early next week, but I’ll know tomorrow).

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Change should be live now. You’ll need to restart Atlas to see that the lockout is now 14 days not 30.

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Better but still seems way higher than needed.

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Still needs to be shorter. A few days would be fine to stop people from dropping for glory, since you’re so intent on not doing anything else to actually fix any of the underlying causes.

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eh, 30 was fine with me and most of my buddies. -as we either loyal to the team or don’t give too much faq when changing teams.

but i guess 14 will do.

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