An answer to the speed meta?

So random idea that I’ve put no thought into the difficulties in implementing but wanted to share and see how it was received.

Being an idea for a change it is a separate thing from my thought experiment so I put it here.

The reason speed is so important in Atlas is because of the possibility either your troops or your opponents are gone before you finish. So let’s play what if….

To start with units of troops fighting with no overlap makes for easy coding but makes no real sense in terms of verisimilitude. So what if your results were carried over to the next primarch on the defending/attacking team at the castle, by next I’m talking about the next highest level (so lower level than the one you are attacking by player level). If you hit the smallest player then your out of luck as there is no one smaller to carry the loss over to.

This will also make castle raids/turnover easier as there won’t be the same wasted attacks with the cascading effects. Sniping will be unaffected due to its solo nature.

So what do you think?

I’d ask you to be gentle but this is the forums and that’s never going to happen.

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My first thought when reading this was:

My poor trapper when I hit a seiger, and the next prime is a trapper

I’d rather have my troops and a chance of getting off/hitting something else than lose all my troops because if automatically chosen prime that gives bad matchup

Not even starting in the coding side of it :see_no_evil:

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It would require a complete rework to our secondary attacking mechanics that would impact every aspect of the game….
From how troops are valued to how primes interact ……which the negation of the prime type versus prime type interaction ……would negate the only tactical play pg “tried” to provide within our secondary attacking and defending mechanics….…

Not to say that the prime system we have is all that effective at producing tactical play! Lmao

And by making it a escalating set of mechanics it instantly created power creep! :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

So not only does it fail to really produce tactical escalation but it’s detrimental long term and it’s unnecessary complexity creates lag with each player having multiple prime types! :man_facepalming::boom:

My legacy account for a singular objective and a streamlined effective efficient combat interface on a map utilizing balanced conflict engagement!

To discuss amendments to these mechanics properly, we need to acknowledge why they are the way they are to begin with. Results are calculated after a battle to allow for the real-time and skill-based portion of flights to be accounted for in results. That is active input during the flight itself affects the battle results and thereby also changes the troop and glory outcome.

If we were to roll the attack down to the next prim, how would you determine the battle results? There are two obvious options:

  1. You roll the calculated results of the previous battle down to that prim. This seems like an imbalanced approach because the stats of the second defensive prim are not taken into account. - Also, highly exploitable by adding prims with low troop numbers to affect downstream battle results.

  2. You sub in the stats of the second prim into the result of the battle on the first prim. Again, seems unfair and exploitable.

Either way, for those battles that roll over (a large proportion of Atlas battles in reality), you are changing the effective results calculation to be determined prior to battle rather than after. While you have flown a base and attacked a prim, the prim that ultimately feels the effects, hasn’t been flown against. To me that somewhat negates one of the core, defining features of War dragons and Atlas, the flying itself.

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Results would have to be calculated on the original primarch match up which could be hand waived in verisimilitude terms as troops rushing out of position to help their fellows who are getting overwhelmed.

As things stand skill is less important than speed encouraging players to hit the low hanging fruit to be able to win before they’re wiped out and it is seen as a pervasive problem because it is a part of almost every Atlas battle.

This was never intended to be a final solution or expected to be even a sound one simply addressing a single aspect of the problems. The one most complained about.

That narrow focus makes it almost impossible that this will be a viable solution and that is kind of the point I’m trying to make to everyone. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

That said within the current primarch system I don’t see any other ways of promoting skill and stretching yourself over a speed based smash and grab. So if this isn’t viable then the whole system needs to be overhauled to change the meta.

How do you arrive at this conclusion? Besides the scourge to the meta that is Krelos, speed in clearing a defended base with any dragon is a measure of flight skill. After the measure of being able to clear bases with increasing numbers of defenders, time is really the only measure of skill we have left (from an Atlas perspective).

Either way, this seems highly exploitable strategy.

I get to it by watching players hit low enough that no skill is required to clear a base so they can smash through without slowing. So this is an evidence based theory that skill is replaced by stomping down to increase speed.

In this situation, I do not arrive at the conclusion that speed of battles is the problem. I see it that hitting down is not penalised sufficiently.

Imagine having your taunters owned by high level players protecting your castle. Currently, they need to be trapped or cleared before people can get to your siegers and destroyers (often owned by players similar level to your taunters as they have the highest power dragons). With your amendment, they don’t need to. Attackers only need to swarm your taunters and any overflow deflects down onto your other prims clearing them before they can do anything. These prims being hit by the over flow, actually don’t have to spend more than one second on the castle to potentially be cleared as no one has to actively fly their base, thereby, also removing their ability to defend themselves.

In the same battle, your siegers are finally being hit by the insurgents and over flow attacks start swiftly destroying any trappers owned by your lower level players (siegers have lower defense than trappers) resulting in them being cleared before they can do anything. Again, the prim being hit by overflow can arrive and in the next second be cleared.

These scenarios do nothing to empower lower level players and actually make it so that higher level players not only get to hit your lower level players but also clear your castle more swiftly. Great for castle turnover, potentially, but does not help the problem that was trying to be addressed.

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You can’t see speed as the goal. I also doubt I could convince you so I’m not going to waste my energy on trying.

I have watched level 600 players slap players level 300 and lower ignoring any larger players trying to defend the castle then brag about how futile attempts to counter snipe are because they can clear the base they hit in just over a minute.

If speed wasn’t a consideration those players could just as easily steamroll the larger players who are there but it would take double he time so they don’t do it. For reference I’m talking about a T2 castle and the attacking teams APR was significantly greater than the defending team.

There aren’t enough mechanics to stop hitting down because you want to throw your weight around but the choice to go after the smaller bases is about speed to stop counter sniping.

Speed is not about skill it is about power.

🤷🏻 Then stop replying. If you don’t wish for a discussion, don’t post in a public forum and feign that you want input.

I do want input and you have given yours. Recognizing an impasse is not a result of feinting a desire for input but a realization that nothing further can be gained down a particular line of discussion. Telling you that this is what I have concluded is simply good manners.

Aren’t people who can solo a triple defended max base fast, skilled? Compared to those who can’t do that?

What is your definition of skill based flying?
Cus if you are Using 2-3 dragons to clear a base, where is the skill in that?

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Yes there is skill to that. SMH

IF players like that were anything other than outliers we wouldn’t have the oft spoken and complained about belief that in atlas speed isn’t everything it’s the only thing.

I am sorry that I hurt a few peoples feelings because they’re in a fairly exclusive club of being able to hit max bases triple defended with one dragon. You are a rare and remarkable group of people. You are also the exception to the rule and by jumping up and down and screaming what about us you undermine our ability to move forward.

There are alot of people like that in d1, it’s not a significantly small group of people who do it.
Most of them have their research maxed in d1 which enables even their socerors and warriors to steam roll max defended bases.

Socerors and warriors are pretty easy to fly.
Then there are Hunter fliers who do well just with skill alone without all extra research buffs.

So how are they going to be rewarded for their extra skills?

By not having wasted that time and effort if someone else finishes slightly before them. Same as everyone else.