Use this thread to chat about Atlas and the current mechanics in this section of the game.
Kind of a laundry list for now, because there are too many things that I’ve lost track of at this point, and various topics that Echo and Squrl should all be familiar with cough - not sure which of these would actually be pursued, which is the problem. If there’s a direction that PG would prefer to go with something, then starting with that would make the most sense.
- Forging - Why can’t we fuse lower level items? Why no diamond option on top of rubies? The speedup bug still exists.
- Haven for every team - low level infrastructure (lower than T2, and not uncapped inf), pretty much just so that they have something to call their own but are still encouraged to pursue castles when ready
- Make current castles more worthwhile, as 3/5 structures are the same across all tiers
- Castles are out of sync with primarchs (primarchs get stats upped, inf stays old), which is the exact same issue that non-Atlas is having now
- Have new castle types that are more actively meant to be flipped and grant bonuses without needing to spend on it - there are various ways to structure entry into that competition
- Counter-sniping is dumb, but at the same time, there needs to be something to replace that to make active defense more worthwhile past just defending the flight. The fight already favors the attacker, while the defenders currently need to just dumbly sit there and wait. 2k primarch vs 100x troops or 10k being the same makes no sense (and yes, someone’s going to mention guerrilla warfare or other stuff, but then that should be higher risk too, but the risk is the same).
- People miss Kingpin (PvE where any primarch would get the max glory, regardless of stats but permaloss of troops), though it probably also shouldn’t happen too often
I’d first like to ask what does PG want out of atlas? What are your goals and expectations for it?
I would probably point to 2 issues at the moment
- Large scale Alliances. They make things massively political, decrease competition and overall performance.
- Stagnation. I’d think we would want teams to constantly be moving, gaining. Right now, we just sort of sit around
To start with, I have 3 suggestions:
- Attacks against Siegers are parried off too easily with players quitting at 20-30% with no heavy losses to their troops. So, an increase to the loss of troops based on the damage percentage against Siegers is required.
- Put a cap on the troops allotted to a player or a team in general. This is not something that would impact the current game much as everyone can revive fast. But, in a scenario where one team is having millions of troops as opposed to a new team that gets access to atlas with zero troops, it makes a huge difference. The new team feels intimidated and when the former said veteran team attacks this new team, it feels like bullying. By capping the troops for all the teams, at some stage in game, both the teams in the given example will have the same amount of troops to fight with which makes atlas fair for all.
- Limit the castles that a team can attack based on the max castles owned by a team.
Team A owns 90% level 5 castles (45/50 max castles), they can only attack other level 5 castles.
Team B owns 80% level 4s (40/50 max castles), they can only attack level 4 castles or higher.
Team C owns 60% lvl 3s (30/50), 20% lvl 4s (10/50), 20% lvl 5s (10/50), they can attack level 3s or higher.
This will encourage the bigger teams amassing the level 4s and 5s to attack other bigger teams with the same level castles rather than some small team who owns level 2s and 3s. This will address atlas being stale for some teams as they do not get a chance to fight other teams having the same caliber and infrastructure. This would encourage them to do so and balance things a bit. This will also give a chance to newer and smaller teams to progress without worrying about joining some large alliances to just fight for their existence in atlas or feel bullied/threatened by established teams in atlas.
Please see if this is feasible.
Sure. I think everyone agrees quitting early on a base isn’t great, but we have destroyers(?)
The actual number of troops a person has is pretty irrelevant given you’re limited by both caps in interaction and revives. So whether you have 100k or 100m. The amount you can use or reuse is limited by that regardless. It’s a common misconception that occurs if the mechanics are not properly understood.
A common meta is to drop high level/ majority castles and just sustain off of sniping. Some of the top teams do not try to try own top land as a result of this dynamic. This seems counterintuitive and would only further encourage dropping castles for more opportunities at earning seasonal glory prizes.
Part of the reason why team power is used as a measure is to prevent teams from fighting teams “below their league.” It falls into the “sandbagging” category that we should strive to reduce, not increase.
I reiterate my question to PG. What is the goal for Atlas? How should teams be panning out?
Yes something needs to be done to address attackers who quit early
Why should players/Teams who build high numbers of troops be penalised
Train Troops event is there to encourage troop building you are suggesting to cap it ?
Is asking for sandbagging
Teams can just hide by owning lower level castles and never worry about getting hit by there peers which is already happening within Atlas
Just wanted to post here saying that we have seen the propositions made here. Our priority internally is to focus on tower balance, economy, and rune removal. Till theres more movement on those axis, I dont want to spread focus.
Are there any updates that can be provided at this time? It’s been a while since we decided to give time for pg to show interest in making significant changes to various aspects of the game. I think 2 weeks is a fair amount of time to expect some answers.
Just wanted to post here that Ive joined Early Birds (the atlas NDA’d group) and will start grouping together all the issues we see this week. Please post / @me if you have specific thoughts. I plan to do the following:
- Work with forums / DMs / Early Birds to formulate a list of issues
- Group issues into buckets based on difficulty to fix and impact
- Engage internally to see what can be done / on what timeline
Ill be posting updates to this thread similar to the other thread around tower power. Please bear with me as I’m an Atlas noob
I’ve been working with the Early Birds on identifying a bunch of problem areas in atlas and wanted to circle back and share the list we are working with. This is in no way complete, but is a starting point and has led to some good discussions.
Passage / Access vs Internal Castles - The risk / reward of holding different castles based on where they are in the map isn’t quite right. This could be fixed by adjusting the layout, adjusting value of holding access castles, or other solutions.
Land Value - the risk of trying to hold higher level land isn’t always worth it due to the way glory scaling works
Sniping - This was not a planned dynamic and solutions for other things should look to include this as a needed fix
Castle Guard Swapping - We would like to get to a place where this isn’t a normal behavior
Mega Alliances - We love that alliances form and mega alliances forming shows that at least some of the design is working. That said, when land control stops changing and swapping becomes a norm, this probably points to there not being enough shakeups to said alliances.
Sharding - There has been a bunch of conversation around some sort of sharding (split up the teams in Atlas onto their own maps) to keep like players together. This is clearly a big design initiative, but is a thing that might solve some of the above issues.
Resets - Without some sort of power / land reset the ownership of Atlas becomes stagnant and mega-alliances end up owning everything. This seems like it should be part of an ideal solution, but has many complicated details
Troop Risk: Due to a variety of factors (castle accessibility, politics, sniping), there’s some thought that troop risk may not be where it should be for some teams. We’d like to make it less feasible to attack without risk of counterattack.
Max Castle Ownership - Having 50 castles be the max that can be owned but only 20 produce rewards has design reasoning but might need to be looked at. Reducing max castles owned might potentially help reduce entrenched land control.
Sandbagging - Its not great and an ideal solution would make it not worthwhile
- Quests have issues
- Event bracketing / Prizes
- UI Issues
Some param things that seem correct directionally but need analysis / numbers put against:
- Look at revival caps / cost
- Allow T2/3 Castles to count towards tribute rewards for timers
- Look at increasing troop and timer tribute rewards (they seem low)