Current Atlas Feel

@PGDave @pgEcho

The current Atlas feels almost too realistic, which is good in some ways but right now it carries a lot of the problems of warfare in the modern world.

You hurry up, prepare, build up and then you realize that you can’t really afford to fight anyone because it will either start WW3 or if you do, you will immediately be so weak someone else will come and crush both of you. You get all your troops, all of your shards and islands and what not but then you do what exactly? That is the current idle that seems to be here. I know wars were proposed as a way to offset this and maybe they will help or they might make things worse, really hard to say.

For example…this current event. It is a glory event (a modified troop kill one). So, you go out to attack team A…well then team B is going to get involved, possibly team C. Then…you call in team D to help you and so on. Maybe team E is sitting there watching and sees you fight and then waits until all are weak and then kills what is left…that makes a lot of it hard to do simply because of that. Not that troops should be infinite but…this could be months set back if done incorrectly.

I think Atlas, for the most part has such a disconnect from the core game, although given the current price gouging on that side, maybe it is a good thing haha. A lot of what you do in the core game does not really translate directly to Atlas and vice versa.

The amount of work that goes into troops and how essentially they are to do anything kind of limits your ability to just play the game (much like how limited both clocks/energy are on the other side -____- ). In any case, just from the players side, it is a fantasy game with dragons…war is good but maybe not the logistics/prep side as much? Or streamline the ability to build up and fight? It is really, really, really hard to balance, it things are too lax people just get steamrolled and if they are too stringent like in the beginning…people just sit there looking at each other.

The next step is to try and come up with a solution but I figured, first step. was identifying part of the problem.

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Agreed, we have events to build troops followed by event to basically murder them all…
Yet, you don’t want to do that because you have to defend your islands.

If gold was like meat and wood… it would grow daily…
There would be more of if…

We would be able to hunt it and build more troops.
This would give us the “abundance” we need to be able to actually fight more without losing everything.

Gold is the biggest limiter from my POV.
Even if it didn’t grow like food and wood.

Maybe, make it an even 100k per hit on mines?
With 25-30 hits per day limit?

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I agree with this Panda. Events just ultimately weaken teams for “playing the game”.

Makes it hard when other team hoard and don’t participate in events. Maybe a way to help solve this would be to win Troops throughout the events… similar to how you earn energy and inner fires through event prizes which helps offset the expense of the ones used.

Just an idea

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I’ll just leave a random shoutout to the annoying base layout here. sets down and walks away

This is Ragy’s drunken state, please don’t mind him, apologies :bowing_man:

Well…looking at the mechanics of promarchs, they are only leveled with glory (or gems I suppose but lets not go there), glory comes from fighting others but with the current rate you can build troops/kill rate, you can only level them by killing off the most valuable rss in Atlas at an alarmingly high rate. This creates a natural choke point but does possibly hinder the pace of the gameplay a bit?

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But they want money as well… that’s how it’s always been, you buy {troops} and do well, or have to work around it if choosing F2P.

I don’t think it “hinders gameplay”, at least to any extreme extent, because when necessary there is the option to, a) speed up troops or b) get troops transferred to you by teammates that don’t need them/ have plenty to spare.

You clearly haven’t actually played Atlas lol…the ability to really transfer ships between teammates was removed months ago.

There are ways to get money but usually it is for an add on. It would be like placing a stranglehold on health potions.

If said Primarch will allow it, up to 19.6k troops can be transferred over from teammates (200×49×2*). Correct me if that simplistic math has any flaws, if I have a Destroyer in desperate need of troops, 49 other teammates can transfer 200 (potentially 400) troops over. Saving a helluva lot of time and gold, if those troops are needed ASAP.

*Considering they get transferred right before the reset occurs.

19k is the equivalent of about 1 attack…

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Our natural tendency to hoard troops seems like a severe impediment to fighting (a core, enjoyable part of War Dragons).

Alleviating this sounds like it would make Atlas more enjoyable (and less like a cold war echo). Figuring out exactly how to do that will be challenging.

  • A very coarse approach might limit how many troops a player can control at once. Perhaps this increases with level, or we introduce a new Barracks building so that it is at least partially left in players’ hands and can be improved by advancing in the game.
  • Another somewhat heavy-handed approach might require teams to commit a certain percentage of their troops in order to fight in an event or contest a world war. “Commit” as in troops can be used during the event/war but will be cashiered if they live to see the end of the event/war. Players would presumably earn progress towards (seasonal?) rewards (e.g., tokens, timers and novel rewards) based on how many troops they committed (prizes for fighting well > fighting poorly > cashiered >> zero).

What ideas do you all have? Don’t worry if it’s terrible, let’s just get some material out here and discuss.

I think one issue is at play, the gold economy issue. If it wasn’t so hard to build troops, we would spend troops. As such, being able to see raidable amounts of gold is crucial.

In many core aspects of the game, not just Atlas, a key piece of the puzzle you’ve been missing for player engagement is playablilty of everything. In Atlas and events in general, the items you need to play the game are always limited and in short supply without doing dull tasks such as farming a boring ass invader base or hitting asininely easy blackblood bases or farming bronze chests or egg tokens or without spending mind boggling amounts of money.

I don’t know if you worked for PG back in the fall of 2015 to spring if 2016. Events were pretty playable back then. Especially fall of 2015, event prizes had a lot of rubies and energy packs. So you could play a ton. You got the items you needed. If you chose to spend, your return would be quick and then your spending went to team ranking and global individual. It’s an entire different game now and significantly less enjoyable. Many people hanging on to the game from then do it essentially for the friends they’ve built and the nostalgia. It’s not because this shit is especially fun.

Troops need to be more available and we will spend them. As long as they’re difficult to build and so necessary to hoard, then we aren’t going to attack and it’s gonna be a lot of slow play.

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In regards to your suggestions, they both will hinder playability more in my opinion and you tossing out another building for us to spend resources on is rather insulting UNLESS you increase the items needed for them. If it’s an individual barracks, then we need more timers in both the regular events and the atlas ones. If it’s a team building, where is the gold coming from?

For the second suggestion, I think you’ll still find people with atlas ignoring attacking and such. Look at this current event, Dread and Japaneeeze are both at the bottom of the leaderboard. Two very strong teams in game and Atlas are saying “shove those events up your…”. The prizes aren’t worth it. And adding 300 seasonal sigils every Atlas event isn’t going to help, especially when we all know that without a shadow of a doubt, within a season of that being implemented there will be a drastic sigil cost increase.

You offer solutions that suit PG best, not the players.

@CBAteASandwich I’m looking for solutions which suit players. What do you suggest?

Limiting the number of troops used per battle: Instead of 15k-40k. Maybe 1/3 of that? 5k cap? And increasing the rate at which you can build troops, decreasing the gold cost again with enough tower levels?
People need to be able to have smaller skirmishes that build into massive battles…when you go to an island and are stuck for the next 6 hours it becomes pretty all or nothing.

Need to find a way to tie the two games in a bit more, right now they feel like two standalone things that dont really interact, they arent married properly (actually maybe they are…I kid I kid). Maybe have gold added to prizes to help?

Also, find a way to work lumber into something…the game is overflowing with it haha

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I literally just told you. You have to increase troops. So we have to be able to build more for less and we have to have a better way to get gold for it.

Drastically increasing the amount of gold available to farm would likely through off the balance of what it costs for buildings and primarch and such. Maybe a small increase in that area. And then decrease the cost per troop. And make us be able to see what we can raid for gold from ther players.

That’s what will help us spend troops.

Cant speak for either team completely but definitely part of it was the bugs/glitches in movement…that made it really hard to get anywhere so risking tons of troops did not outweigh the allure of the event. Also…the value of troops is still greater than most of the prizes.

I wouldnt say you need to drastically increase gold…but maybe make troops a bit easier to build. Gold is tied into infrastructure so too much and they go back to 260d builds.

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I was getting at the value of the troops is greater than prizes. I didn’t spell that out clearly enough. My bad.

The key is to lower the value of troops but in a balanced way.

If anything would be done, this should be it. 10k tops per attack would seem reasonable.

Atlas was never a prize jar for players, and it’s not supposed to be. Those aspects could be tweaked a little, sure, but no need to beg for more prizes.

And @PGDave, I for one appreciate your commitment to finding a suitable solution.

I disagree. No one is attacking. Make the potential prizes huge for atlas events. Big enough that it is worth loosing ships over (like they were for a short period of time)