Fire vs. ElectoFlak


#61

I thought the fire flak super shot effect lasted much longer than the DF stun (like until the FF was killed?) or is that not true…?


#62

2.5 seconds for the fire flak effect, not sure how long DF stun lasts, but it’s around 2s in my experience.


#63

Oooo that kinda sucks then


#64

The comb.of ice and dark flak on my kill island works pretty well within my level…


#65

I’m a level 86 right now as well. And yes, I have the embers for it


#66

Lucky me


#67

Ice flak finds the most use as a new and improved cannon, and it doesn’t really need to be maxed per se, since, well, it’s not like it’s a heavy damage tower. If your cannon + blue mages can do the work of disabling shields and cloaks well enough, if the people flying against you can’t actually fly well (They can’t, seriously), there is no need for an ice flak. Which is why I would very much put it in the category of the secondary tower that I’d only build in the case of extra embers and in need of fort points. And even then, I wouldn’t make space just to put it on my base.

Perhaps you would consider an electro flak/ fire flak instead? (With a slight bias towards the electro flak) They tend to have more useful abilities to knock down warriors, especially those with df resist. Also, I think the ice turret occasionally does find use against hunters, so, well, if you have another tower that could be replaced, that may be a better choice.

(I’m using a double flak setup with a dark and an electro flak myself, so feel free to message me ingame to take a look?)


#68

It does. I find them useful together. Plus that presumes your defenders aren’t being intelligent about their supershot timing and preferences.


#69

Ice turret and ice flak are completely different towers. It could work out but that’s lol swapping a hammer for a screwdriver.

The old defense setup was

Back
Storm, Ice turret
—Red mage—
Dark flak, blue mage
Front from attacking point of view

Some configs move the blue mage to the back putting the ice turret or replacement in front.

In that scenario the ice turret was the least important. The ice flak also served the purpose of reducing damage. (Although it’s DPS was once good)

Now days the fire flak nicely replaces it by doing its job and far better. Albeit it has a more limited timeframe.

Arguably being more important than a dark flak (although not much use when not used with another high DPS tower)

Now an ice flak does a different job. It’s basically a canon tower 2.0. If you have a canon it nicely replaces it. It works good on kill islands if you have an electro flak or get hit by dragons with spells like blood fury. In those cases it tends to best replace the storm tower. Although it doesn’t replace the functionality of a shield it does even the playing field and ensure both the dragons and towers are are without shields. I consider a fireflak mandatory before doing this as you need that protection. In most cases you will want your ice flak in from and your blue mage in the back to make dodging hard to do. (Still very possible)

Alternatively you can get away with replacing your blue mage with an ice flak. This config makes Your base extra weak when not defended but if you have a second set of towers it can be an okay choice if your team defends well.

Since we are talking about flaks let’s finish by covering when to use an electro flak. In my opinion it’s best used in replacement of a dark flak when you regularly see dragons with dark flak resist. It provides a similar stun while having longer range than dark flak. If you have and ice and fife flak it’s damage buff makes up for the loss of damage vs a dark flak. And when using no blue mage (ice flak replacement) it can be very lethal to hit 4 flaks, with 3 boosted by 25% supershot damage

Now it is my opinion that any good base should have layers. So if you have 2 sets of (5) towers you wouldn’t necessarily want the same 5 towers or arrangement. On my Long Island i use the back half for a ice flak and electro flak coming. Front half I have traditional setup with storm and fire flak. Small island in front I use ice, fire, dark (soon to swap dark for electro) with red and blue mages. My front Island I keep the blue in the back and the middle it’s in the front.

But in summary I would never just replace an ice flak with a storm flak. You need to look at what dragons come at you and decide what’s hurting more, spells or damage.


#70

Ice flak ss also has a shorter range, so, a cannon would do pretty well on a long island. The ice flak would serve that purpose better on a short island, though. But, in general, a fire flak would provide more protection with it’s supershot, and electro would boost attack of the dark flak, so, presumably both would be better choices for a second flak. With their higher DPS, the attacker will always have to fly aware of both flaks, instead of focusing merely on the dark flak. I don’t think I’ve ever been concerned about an ice flak when flying before, though.

Er, idk about this, but white spells can do some serious damage in this case, right? Although the storm is pretty useless without being supershotted, anyway…

I don’t think I’ve had a lot of experience with ice flak vs cloak, but I think if cloak is blocked by ice flak ss, you can immediately recloak. And given that the damage is shit, I recloaked with very little damage taken from a level 39 ice flak (so, er, level 177?). My fomhar typically starts having trouble with level 33-34 electro/fire flaks. Also, why use a supershot when the blue mage can just disable all blue spells at once? This also makes your base only viable when defended for very little value, so I can’t say this would be a good change, especially when you already have a levelled blue mage.

Idk, I just think any island without a blue mage is just asking for destruction by Aibrean or any other cloaking hunter. If anyone with more experience could provide some input, though, that would be nice!

Yeah, I agree that the best 5-set setup would probably be

Fire/ storm
/Red/
Blue/ electro flak.

However, given that Nyx may not actually have enough embers to build three new flaks, perhaps the following configuration would be a better stopgap? Note: I prefer the electro over the fire flak, so it’s position could be replaced with that too.

Short island:
Blue/ Electro
/Red/
Dark flak/ Storm

Long island:
Same thing, but switch blue mage/storm.
Ice flak could be in the third row, but I’m not sure if the supershot will still be useful by the time the dragon comes into range…

I feel that the ice flak does have it’s uses, but they are very specific and not relevant for players below sapphire yet. Your evaluations are pretty good, but they’re not very relevant to people who don’t have a ton of embers/ face dragons who have spells that need disabling.

(You must have a lot of embers, because I’m personally struggling to keep my electro/ dark flaks maxed :"( )


#71

Ice flak is potentially the greatest flak to ever be created due to is spell stopping special and lack of counters, that being said you cant expect to just throw it anywhere and it produce devastating results, its without a doubt the trickiest tower/flak to utilize effectively and it can be rendered useless by skilled flyers if poorly managed by user.

That being said, the power that the other 3 flaks have can be brutal, especially when all 3 of them (DF, FF, EF) are combined, its like nothing ive ever seen before and could be considered just as mandatory or necessary to possess in order to be successful in your defense.

Embers are all that matter to me.

Currently testing this configuration


#72

Nothing against my team (I love y’all!) but the number of times I’ve seen every single tower on my kill isle activated at the same time has gotta be close to 90%…


#73

Rajin is coming? ARMS ALL THE MAGES


#74

If I attack you, please listen to the sage words of @Lutrus here.


#75

Bring it, and I’ll raise you a level 70 Ballista!!! :muscle:


#76

I wish


#77

Which is why it’s pretty much useless for sub-100 players save for a few, very specific situations.

(Also, do you mind not deep-frying your images?)


#78

Thats your opinion but god forbid you look ahead.

Do you mind not trying to control what i do because ima do it regardless


#79

Dude, chill out…

These ice cubes should help. :t_rex:


#80

Ok ill chill and do all the petty favors asked of me