Higher leagues helping take lower leagues castles

Diamond and saphire teams need their own map. Let them go after each other.platinum needs its own map and gold needs theirs.
This is my biggest complaint.

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There’s many problems with the map in atlas.
Also, this should go We want your thoughts as we look forward to 2021

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I agree, plat teams should not have atlas at all. Clearly plat and gold teams are not cut out for it. Problem solved.

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There are no leagues in atlas.

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how about one atlas map for all teams but with borders where platinum cant cross with primarks to the higher league areas and vise versa.
and when a team goes to higher league their castles move to a different area of the map each shuffle.

sand bagging teams would love that. They’d conquer everything lmao

There’s many problems with the map and many ways to fix it, but I don’t feel that completely separating leagues is the way to fix it.

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So when Diamond hits my Sapphire team, I should compain and say, Diamond needs their own map?

I have a simple solution, stick up for your property and fight :slight_smile: Thats what we did last time Diamond visited our doorstep. Being succesful in Atlas has nothing to do with what league your team plays in main game - but Atlas has everything to do with activity and strategy.

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This has been discussed at great length in many places - what is needed is a map which incentivizes stronger teams fighting over more valuable territory and makes it not worthwhile to hit lesser valued territory.

pagin @MALIK

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Yes positional attacking :man_shrugging: And a true open map with all players on the map no castles based on defense I don’t know about you but I’m already tired of playing defense dragons and so I left the stagnation of castles and yep gave up all thsoe bonuses and switched to a purely offense based play style :man_shrugging: Because I want to actually play this game long term if you would like to get rid of mega alliances stagnation and sandbagging post a like on suggestion below! Post 145 lol

quote=“MALIK, post:146, topic:132526, full:true”]
I’ll just post this here i made a thread about this as well
I’d like to see a long term map in the coming year!
And shuffling this map will only produce piracy hence the flag
I recently picked up :pirate_flag:

MALIKHighly Skeptical

13d

Tactical Design:

Tactical games are designed for either short-term or long-term play.

They are designed to either degrade rapidly or escalate endlessly.

Depending on which design mechanic is the basis of the game and what combat mechanics are used to support it.

Short-Term Games:

Short-term games are most often designed around a mechanic known as degradation and as the game progresses less and less tactical play is possible.

This allows the game to quickly produce a winner and a loser, or most often, a draw.

These games typically support 1-6 playersimage

Tic tac toe is the most basic example of this. Having 9 total squares, with the goal of acquiring 3 squares in a row, it’s so simple that it almost always ends in a draw and is often played by children for that reason.

This is achieved by using acquisition to support degradation. During each turn a player acquires a square and the simplicity of the board results in almost instant degradation, quickly producing a draw.

If we scale up its complexity, we can slow degradation, and what we end up with is chess.

Chess utilizes a larger game board of 64 squares and pieces of varying value and ability. The game is based on acquiring your opponents pieces, with the goal of capturing the King. It is very balanced and designed around acquisition while utilizing some escalation as well; however, as complex and balanced as it is, it can ultimately end in stagnation, and often does between equally skilled opponents.

The game of Risk also utilizes degradation. At first glance, we might only see regions of differing values and a large and complex board. But when we look closer, it consists of 42 squares and all pieces, or troops, are of equal value.

Although tactical, it uses dice to randomly produce a winner. The game is based on degradation, but utilizes some escalation. Like chess, it’s balanced.

Now look at the mess above, lol, and tell me how we can balance this. Will making this more complex slow degradation? Nope. It will be more likely to produce massive lag instead. Which is exactly what has happened.

Long-Term Games:

Long-term games are designed around a mechanic called escalation, and as the game progresses, combat tactics escalate and players utilize positional dominance to support escalation. As combat ensues, the players fight for a better tactical position to attack from. This aids in creating endless conflict and long-term play. These games support a larger number of players than short-term games!

image

Long-term games utilize a larger game board. The game of Pente includes 144 possible positions. The ultimate goal is to move 5 or more pieces into a row, and no one piece or individual position is more valuable than the other; they are all of equal value.

A players overall position on the board, along with the size of the board, is what determines the outcome. This can go on without end, and the more players involved, the larger the board the longer the game will last!

Above is an example of a massive open map, without castles of differing values, where rank is determined by a team’s position relative to the center of the map. This view is zoomed all the way out. At the combat level view you can see rolling hills, valleys and other terrain features. This view is used for tactical planning and allows a player to see the map as a whole.

Note that each player’s base is a dot on the map and my base’s location is at the map’s edge. The map’s edge is where all players begin, or restart if they have lost all their troops,with the goal of reaching the center of the map.

I will have to fight my way back towards the center of the map to rejoin my team after having lost a battle and all of my troops. I will need to quickly rebuild troops to do this.

In this scenario, I will have to make a long distance attack to rejoin my team cluster. My team will need to help secure a position for me to take now so that I can rejoin them. Once I return to my team cluster I will begin to build up my resources and troops to contribute to their movement closer to the center of the map, where better resources and targets can be found.

My team will not want to establish a mega alliance and surround itself with allied teams because this will limit their mobility and prevent us from gaining better positional dominance. This tactic will produce small situational alliances based on position. These alliances are fleeting and change as teams vie for the center of the map where attacking is most profitable.

Additionally, because rank is determined by position on the map, it makes conflict happen positionally and prevents lag, because you won’t see 30+ teams sending multiple primes to a single location. Conflict only takes place between a handful of teams in any given location, so mega alliances would actually hinder your team’s efforts. Sandbagging could be done by individuals, but not by whole teams.

An open map founded on escalation would be ideal and is what I believe is needed.

Team rank should be moved to the map contingent upon position, with Diamond League at the heart of the map. The center would hold the best rewards and whoever holds the core area would definitely not want to surround themselves with allies, as doing so would essentially leave them nothing to attack.

I would like to see removal of the defensive castles that cause stagnation, along with building a long-term map revolving around combat and attacking, in lieu of defending tactically stagnant castles.

All teams should have a real reason to fight and the rewards at the center will need to be considerably better than the rank system we currently have to properly drive escalation.

The thread is titled : A closer look at map design and stagnation.
If you would like to discuss a functional map designed for long term offensive play.
I’d love to flesh out what that map would look like in that thread.
Who knows maybe pg will give us a lag free map if we can describe one to them :man_shrugging:!
[/quote]

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Atlas is primarily a game of politics. I don’t think it could be changed to a strategy game unless it had a time limit. This is because you’ll get a few strong teams to agree how to split up the high value property, and then just sit there.

You could make castles build up bounties to encourage war, but then these teams would just trade amongst themselves to collect bounties.

I think it needs to be more like an event where a team both has to be strong, and put in a significant effort, Then declare a winner every 3 months and make a new map.

It doesn’t even have to affect current atlas. Can be a new world. Resetting it every season doesn’t eliminate long term alliances, but helps quite a bit with stagnation.

If you shuffle that map I’ll just keep waving this flag :pirate_flag:
Along with many others and each time the maps shuffled more will follow.
I have little desire to play speed chess! Lol
Re setting the game board doesn’t appeal to me but will feel exactly like a season long event and I’ve experienced one of those it was called the great contest.

I’ll just fore go the burden of play castles create and set aside the bonuses as the incentive to play defense dragons just isn’t there for me.

I’m not paying for a broken laggy map designed for short term conflict :man_shrugging:

Do you also refuse to play kingdom wars then?

A diamond leader, a saph leader, and a plat leader are stuck in lag in NML together. They come across a mysterious lamp in the red sands; one of them rubs it, and lo, a genie comes out.

“I AM THE GENIE OF THE LAMP,” he booms. “I SHALL GRANT YOU THREE WISHES. YOU!” He points to the diamond leader.

“I want me and all my diamond buddies to be able to fight my most hated diamond enemies, without having to go through a billion saph and plat teams, or have them nip at our ankles if we start to make headway.”

“DONE!” the genie says, and he gets whisked away to the new Land of Diamonds. “YOU!” he says to the sapphire leader.

“I want me and all my sapphire bros and sises to be able to fight the absolute sapphire JERKS on the other side, without having to open a billion plat gates,” he says. “DONE!” says the genie, and the sapphire teams are teleported to the Land of Sapphires.

The plat leader scratches his head. “You mean to tell me that all the sapphire and diamond turds are gone?” he asks.

“INDEED,” says the genie.

“In that case, I guess I’ll have 10 energy packs and 10 inner fires.”

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I don’t particularly enjoy KW but it at least has the potential to be balanced and they have made some improvements but I still don’t particularly care for the defense dragon mechanics that were added even after it’s been made more user friendly.

But I will play a 5 day event for my team and I’m sure most will agree the events currently in rotation have become stale and that’s pretty much what the map will feel like after a few shuffles.
Yep stale and pointless but it won’t be a 5 day event it will be a season long event that has a massive burden of play and more politics than tactics.
When the lag allows us to actually play :rofl:

Yep while kw is similar the entire player base isn’t on one map so the two are similar but aren’t really comparable :man_shrugging:

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It would be optional. You wouldn’t have to play if you didn’t want do. It would certainly be more fun than parking in Aligane all day. And yes, the same teams may win that as well, or they may decide its not worth the effort and some other teams may win a couple.

Another advantage is the the devs could adjust the rules every 3 months and nobody would throw a fit, since its a full reset anyway. The battle map may evolve into something really fun and interesting.

Atlas is not optional if your seeking to play competitively.
The dragons are balanced now with gear being the tipping point that allows the dragon to preform at the highest levels
Sadly gear is required in our current meta and that makes the map basically mandatory for competitive play at highest levels.

What your describing is a 3 month event that would require constant changes and pg can’t even launch a breed event much less rebalance the map every 3 months🤣

And currently it’s so unstable the lag makes actual conflicts pointless the only reason KW works at all is because the entire player base is broken up on multiple maps that reduce the lag.
Sorry brother I agree if pg understood how to balance a tactical map it could be made to be progressive and dynamic but as long as that map has castles of differing values it will stagnate every time!
And it will quickly become apparent that it doesn’t support any kind of long term tactical play and just like events it will become repetitive rather quickly as that was the point of creating a map it was to create a long term reason to fight. :man_shrugging:

The old core game lacked escalation “offensive play” and the original dev team knew this and added the map to give this game a long term escalation mechanic that sadly was implemented using a map based on degradation and surprise its not supplied the escalation we needed.

And it can’t since it’s a defensive map it’s not balanced to provide the escalation that we need and shuffling that defensive map will not add any escalation to this game.
Basically shuffling will only provide a short term period of escalated combat .

And we told them this during beta we literally told them it would end in lag and stagnation and here we are!

And as long as a castle stands on that map we will remain here simple as that!

So unless you believe pg can balance and refine a game better than chess it will simply end in stagnation after each shuffle.

We have had about 6 thousand years to refine and balance chess and it still ends in stagnation between two opponents of equal skill.

Just like this map will always end in stagnation between 30k players …I’m sorry this map is not capable of supporting the player base and no amount of balancing will allow it too as long as it’s overall goal is acquiring defensive positions it just won’t happen.
Might as well say the sun won’t rise :sunny: Lol

To me I’d rather not have another short term mechanic designed to squeeze money from the player base I’d rather have a sustainable long term reason to play :facepunch:

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Sorry, I was suggesting an optional extension, not a replacement to atlas.

I am a little confused that you bemoan the stagnation and then resist anything more dynamic. All games have an end, even chess and othello, at which point you clear the board and play again.

I see a blue box info box next to my text as I type, implying our conversation has become as stagnant as atlas, so I guess this is where I leave it. I will say (and I’m not talking about you) that based on the many comments I saw during the “shuffle” that I was surprised as to the number of people who claim to want to see atlas “fixed”, but when you get down to it, really seem to prefer the status quo.

Yep we have different perspectives and nothing about that shuffle is dynamic it’s literally just starting over.
But let’s wait and see what pg does as I don’t see them addressing lag under these mechanics and if they can make it fun I’ll play it and even pay for it :sunglasses::+1:

I will say that you can design a game that does not end you simply make it purely offensive :man_shrugging: And much like life the game never ends lol

But at this point lag Reigns supreme so let’s debate further after a few shuffles and see what transpires.

To be continued… lol

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