Lots of talk about wars

Lots of talk about wars and how to “balance” them or improve them.

I know a very common complaint is when wars start. Now, technically, this affects everyone the same, since wars, as long as both teams have and keep 50 members, are 24 hours long. But, in reality, being the “first mover” has many advantages. Especially if you manage to get to 250 before the other team gets above 50 or so. You know exactly how many times you have to defend before the war is yours.

As something to consider, what if teams were allowed to set the times they could be vulnerable to a war declaration? Teams can pick a “prime time” for themselves, each day (or have larger windows of vulnerability so that they are not “on alert” every single day.

So, let’s say a team has to be vulnerable, just as an example, 18 hours a week. Most of this team’s players are in the US, and they are fairly active most nights, and very active on Saturday. And they have a few members who, due to other obligations, cannot play on Sundays. To facilitate this, they choose not to be vulnerable to wars on Sunday at all. So, they have to be vulnerable for 18 hours over the remaining six days.

They could, if they wanted, be vulnerable for 18 hours all in one day, but they could easily end up with 24 wars if they did this, and all of them staggered by 40 minutes. So, that is probably not a good approach. Might work for Dread. :stuck_out_tongue:

Back to realistic. ideas for the mortals . .

Prime time is the center – so, if a team sets a 3 -hour vulnerability window with a Prime Time of 9:00 PM Eastern, they would be vulnerable to a war declaration starting at 7:30 PM Eastern time and ending at 10:30 PM Eastern time. Wars could be declared at any time in this window. But outside the window, wars cannot be declared (well, they can be, but they will not start until a vulnerability window begins).

In the League menu, teams that are currently vulnerable could have an Icon indicating such, could even be something like a simple red or green dot. Just something so that each team does not have to be looked at individually to see if they are vulnerable at that time. Windows must be at least one hour.

Anyway, back to the three-hour window this team has set on Monday. Any time in that three hours, any team in that league could declare. Wars start every quarter hour, so an attacker can still have that element of surprise by declaring 10 seconds before the next quarter hour. Don’t be late though, or the defenders will know you are coming.

Now, this team doesn’t really like committing to wars or at least having to watch for one EVERY night. And, they do have some players in England and a couple in Germany as well. So, instead of a 3 hour window, they opt for a 6 hour window, and start it at 6:00 PM Eastern. So, they are now vulnerable from 3:00 PM Eastern until 9:00 PM Eastern. And they know they can have at least some players on for that entire time.

Now, they have 12 hours remaining in which they can be vulnerable that they need to asign.

They choose to have a 1 hour window on Tuesday with prime time at 8 PM. (so, vulnerable from 730-8:30).

They have another 6 hour vulnerability window on Wednesday at the same time as Monday. So, 5 hours left.

Thursday, they set no window. They can be declared on, but the war will not start until the next window.

Friday, 2-hour window with prime time at 9 PM.

Saturday, 3 hour window, starting at 3 PM. (They are active, but they also want to work on the event, whatever it is).

Sunday, no vulnerability.

Vulnerability windows can be changed weekly, but once set, they are “locked in” and cannot be changed–or, they can be changed (i’m thinking in a panel similar to the war availability panel in “more settings”), but no changes take effect until the next league shuffle.

Another team may opt for smaller windows, but have them every day every day.

This has no effect on when a team can declare, only upon when they can declare on a particular team. Or, specifically, if they want to give the other team a warning that they are going to be attacked, they can declare whenever, but the war will not start until the next available quarter hour of the next available window.

18 hours is just a suggestion. Maybe it’s too big, maybe it’s too small.

What are your thoughts?

I’ll make a couple surveys to more easily capture general feelings, but please feel free to leave comments or suggestions or criticisms (constructive)–if you don’t like it, that’s fine. :smiley: But please say why you don’t like it and not just that you don’t. I’m asking because I know there are a lot of people out there, and together, maybe we find a better solution… Or maybe I’m asking the wrong question here.

It’s only an idea I’m floating as a way to help balance out the war start-time bias.

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Fundamental Question: Is this idea workable in some form:

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  • Yes – Vulnerability windows would help balance one aspect of wars
  • No – Vulnerability windows would not help or would create more problems than they solve

0 voters

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How much time should a team have to be vulnerable?

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  • Less than 10 hours per week
  • 10 to 12 hours per week
  • 12 to 18 hours per week
  • More than 18 hours per week

0 voters

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Should League be a factor in the minimum number of vulnerable hours?

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  • Yes – Higher leagues should require more total vulnerable hours per week
  • No – League should not matter
  • No – But leagues below platinum should have a smaller minimum requirement per week

0 voters

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Did I leave out any important questions (at least for starting)?

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  • Yes – and I’m going to tell you in my comment
  • No – You asked everything I would have! :stuck_out_tongue:

0 voters

Thank you very much to anyone who provides some input. Again, this is not a proposal–it’s just an idea that maybe could address the fairness of war start times.

3 Likes

This might be a decent idea and system, but it’s way too complicated imho

Edit: a rolling 4 hour start time per week will solve the balance issue in the long run for all team

I’ll have to read it later

A simple rule would be this:

When a team declares war on another team, a random diceroll decides when the war starts (anytime from within 1h-23h58m)

That kind of solves that issue

(and yes im aware its an unpopular solution)

That is much simpler.

Maybe Ockham’s razor can apply to this problem as well.

My idea is much more difficult to describe than to see in action. I cannot comment of ease of implementation. My suggestion would be to add a “flag” as a hidden characteristic of a team that is a simple yes/no (boolean) that pulls its present value from the windows set by the team.

You could even coordinate you’re vulnerable times with your offensive war times

The dice roll is simple, but you have a high chance of missing the surprise as the offense, and a high chance that even though you took the risk and declared, you war will now start at a time that is really bad for you. That doesn’t seem like just reward for taking the risk of declaring.

another unpopular idea could be that its simply a diceroll on who you end up declaring against in your league :slight_smile:

or you could create a scenario where wars have to be fought, eg on day X of the week, everyone in the league randomly gets assigned a war opponent. That way sandbagging becomes harder.

2 Likes

If you had a required war, it would mean either throwing the war if you could afford to do so without dropping a league, or it would force you to win.

Or, slight variation-- if you have not warred in the previous week, when the shuffle comes around, you lose standing. Since we don’t want to be taking away points without giving them to someone, those who warred the most get all the lost points, even the losers. I’d be fine with splitting them 1:1 or 2:1 (winners:losers).

But that might be too easily gamed… Teams could swap wars back and forth for a net gain of zero, and then pick up the free points… So, scratch that last part… Unless maybe the points really do disappear. Or only the top three warring teams who had more victories than defeats get the “bonus points.”

There are lots of possible ideas here. Maybe an event similar to Skirmishes could replace wars (if you don’t remember this event, think of it as a bunch of mini-wars that are back to back, but you cannot skirmish unless you “enter” – so, it’s not a marathon, unless you choose for it to be). The game has evolved a lot since then, so it would need some tweaking, but I think it could work. IIRC, the “wars” were quite short, so you could get one to two done per day without too much commitment. Certainly, smaller blocks of time that some of the present event require. And it would help shake of the leagues, since rank points could be rewarded as though a full war for each skirmish. Do that, and sandbagging will be very hard.

It would also shake up diamond 1 and 2. :smiley: (Except maybe for the part where Dread is at the top… but who knows?)

Oh, yeah… this event did not have energy or IF or Mega coins. Just like a war does not.

I’ve previously suggested that war start times should be allocated randomly to one of three upcoming start times, each eight hours apart.

So everyone will know exactly when they might expect to have wars starting - like they do now - but there’s three times each day rather than just one.

So if I declare a war at 15:55 PST, it might start at 16:00. But it might start at midnight, or at 8 the following morning. Funnily enough, the same would be true for someone declaring at 15:55 local time in London or Hong Kong.

Simple to follow, easy to co-ordinate, and fairer regardless of where you live.

That it easier than what I was proposing. But it might reduce satisfaction.

If those were three times at which wars could start, and a declared war always started at the next “start” time, that might have the desired effect, while still giving the attacker (who is risking more) the advantage of choosing when their offensive wars begin.

To me, this would just allow teams to not need to have as much strategy, or diversity of players, and still win wars.
-Would you see when they are available to be warred upon? Or would you have to try it every team to see?
-When would the war start if you declared on a team when their availability is let’s say 3pm EST? Is it right away?

I think any solution which allows teams to choose the start time of wars is only fair if there’s an even distribution of teams across the world.

My assumption is that there are a lot more teams that are predominantly US-based - or generally North America at any rate. If that’s true, then it means the majority of wars - as a total across the game - would occur at times convenient for US teams. While your system allows teams to avoid being declared on when it’s inconvenient for them, it also reduces the pool of potential opponents that teams might themselves declare war on at a convenient time - as only a subset of your league will be in a similar timezone. For non-US teams, that will likely be a smaller number of the other teams in the league. Those teams would likely then face more uneven match-ups (due to the reduced pool in their own timezone) or more frequently have to declare wars at times unsuitable for themselves.

A random start time - whether assigned to any minute in the next 24 hours or to one of three (or four) fixed slots as I’d suggested - is the only way to remove any bias caused by a player base that appears to be dominated by four timezones out of twenty-four.

That is an excellent point. The flip side of what I threw out is that with the ability to not have to worry about defensive wars comes the possibility that when any one team in a league is playing, they may have only two or three possible war target.

So, what if the minimum window were larger? Or what if you had to have 36 hours a week of vulnerability time?

Now it gets hard to have defensive wars only when it is convenient for you.

And you don’t have to have only one window per day. I did on my example to make is a little less complicated.

36 hours would work out to 6 hours per day with one day “off.”

I think the only day that 6 hours would even be possible for most teams is Saturday.

If we use my EST time example and assume the team is 100% US, the time that makes the most sense would be 8 PM EST. That’s 5 PST. And midnight GMT. But, we have to back it up 3 hours to the beginning. Which means their vulnerability window starts at 5 EST, when many people are leaving work, and is at noon PST. It’s also only 9 PM GMT. And it would end at midnight EST, which would be potentially, a good time for a heavily Korean, Russian, or Japanese team to strike.

I like random, but only if the attacker keeps the element of surprise. I think that is a fair reward for taking the risk and being the first mover.

I suggested something similar but got the witty response that “the French couldn’t choose when the Germans came through the Ardennes” or something like that.

Well, if we’re going to play the “real” war game…

Yeah… too much to say, but nothing constructive.

This is a game. It should be fun. War is not fun.

1 Like

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