Mythic obsidian warrior discussion


#1

I would basically like to have a bit of a discussion on the obsidian warrior Girasol, and by extension Hedran, as they share a similar spell (except Hedran is actually better than his Mythic big brother, due to the fact that his little platinum spell Seething spark, outperforms the obsidian spell Isolation in every aspect.

As previously discussed the elements that make a warrior useful (summarized)

  1. Needs a dps spike ability that allows it to kill a tower FAST. Even while defended. MOre importantly it needs to be useable when mage towers are around.

  2. It needs a survivability mechanic (shield of some sorts / tower debuff) which is useable when mage towers are around.

  3. it needs a heal of some sorts (ideally)

  4. Needs a rage regen of sorts. (bonus)

  5. Useful resist

Lets look at two warriors that were “great” for example:

a) Skarr

  1. Had spellflux - instantly killed a mage tower, and damaged the surrounds
  2. Had Heatshield - excellent shield which reduced incoming damage, and healed 20%
  3. See 2
  4. Good rage regen mechanic (sacrifice - works because of HeatShield)
  5. No useful resist

b) Algor

  1. Dreadful roar - not quite a deathgaze, but white, and made towers take more damage, lasted through death, and decreased the damage they did. Very solid.
    2&3) Heatshield
  1. No rage mechanic
  2. Two great resists.

Every warrior that is remotely useful has the majority of these traits.
(Sage - 1.thunder, 2. shield, 3. regen etc)

Now, Obisidian tier is endgame, and as such the flagship dragons (mythic) for these tiers should be useful in endgame.

Endgame means PVP against maxxed bases. See Noctua or Rhyo.

Now, lets look at Girasol

Spellset:

Starburn - At low HP dragon gains increased damage (PASSIVE)
Malefic breath - Gloom clouds on towers (BLUE)
Isolation: Briefly weakens chosen tower and significantly weakens surrounding towers (BLUE)
Dark Flak resist

Discussion

  1. Starburn is okish… except you have to be dying for it to kick in

  2. Malefic is and was always junk, to make it worse its BLUE so can’t be cast when mages are up

  3. Dark flak resist - solid

  4. Isolation

This spell is simply broken.

Problems

  1. cannot be cast with blue mage towers around
  2. costs 2 rage, which means you are usually depleted when said mage tower is dead (if you aren’t dead first)
  3. If you destroy the tower that you cast it on, the effect ends
  4. Effect only lasts a few seconds, and during that time you still take significant damage (although less)

So where does this leave our “mythic obsidian warrrior” in the "ideal warrior stakes

  1. No high dps ability
  2. Non effective “shield” ability - cannot be cast with mage towers around, doesn’t last through death
  3. No heal mechanic
  4. No rage regen
  5. Nice resist

In fact, if you use hedran on a base run, and NEVER use isolation, but instead use seething spark, you come out ahead by a mile.

Basic xp run using isolation: 25% health left
Basic xp run using seething spark: 75% health left

Why? Spark gives passive damage boost, and when triggered (1+1rage = same as isolation), it disables all towers 100% for duration, instead of just dropping the damage a bit.

Ok so what is the solutions:

  1. Simplest would just be to fix the isolation spell
  • Minimum would be to make it white and last through death. This makes it on par with algor’s breath spell, except it does no damage.
  1. Better would be to change the mechanic, where it destroys the targetted tower, and weakens the ones around it (mix between spell flux and algor’s breath spell)

  2. Fix to Starburn ability - instead of just increasing damage when below 65% health, the “marks” it puts on towers should either regen rage or health in addition. Think northern lights.

I’ll try post some videos over the weekend showing how Girasol and Hedran fair against high level bases, but as a hint Girasol dies horribly against maxxed towers.


#2

Fantastic review and insight :ok_hand:t3::ok_hand:t3::ok_hand:t3:


#3

Great review indeed, but we do have useless dragons of all rarities, many mythics just sitting on perches, and even green tier was ‘endgame’ once.
Not all dragons have to be competitive, some are just pretty breeders, others not even that.


#4

I’ve forwarded this thread to our designers so they have eyes-on it. We’re already trying out some changes to improve Malefic Breath. As for Isolation, its effects las 6.5s and only weakens the target tower by 15%, but all adjacent towers’ damage is reduced by 90%. Despite the longer duration, I can see why a stun would be better sometimes–no damage or supershots vs some damage, albeit reduced significantly. Thanks for putting this together! It’s always valuable to see detailed and thoughtful feedback like this!


#5

My opinion a good warrior is a warrior with shield + heal + one spell increase damage output + good resist, Girasol already have good resist, Isolation can help reduce damage just like a shield, Starburn can’t compare with Superheated breath or Deathful roar but better than nothing, all he need now is a healing spell add Rejuvenate, Southern Cross or whatever can heal, it will help him a lot, Malefic breath is not necessary and wasted of spell lot.
About Malefic breath if you guy plan to bring it back in future I think make it as a passive spell, that will be great.


#6

Thanks for the numbers. I will record some runs later the weekend, but it doesn’t seem like its reducing by 90%. Girasol is still taking significant damage. Might just be perception.

However, as a blue spell that you rely on to mitigate incoming damage you are at a massive disadvantage. Once there is a mage present, its a dead loss. Will try illustrate over weekend with videos, else later next week.

Isolation should be an obsidian enabling spell. Eg it needs to be on par with obsidian skills that significantly does the job against lvl 55 towers. I don’t quite understand why it expires, if its blue, and if the expiration is needed, then make it white?

Once again those are options, not necessarily the solution.

He needs a heal mechanic of sorts, whether starburn gives mini heals, or whether he passively regenerates say 0.5% health/second when starburn is active - all could work.

He takes a very big chunk of damage while Blue mages are up, and even if they are not, red mages still drain him out.


#7

I made a response over this in a thread about different Obsidians. I will link it here:


#8

@Arelyna any chance you could get an answer here? Mafic flies circles around Girasol.


#9

Finally got around to making some basic recordings

Nothing fancy, undefended non-maxed bases (although the towers are mostly 60s). Expert Girasol with rider, nothing fancy as I said.

Dragon doesn’t get past 1 island in the majority of cases.

This is without a single defender.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU1cDAKSZiw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzSb8zD6nxU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wzDYhs_DsBY

So some of the main issues
A) Isolation

  1. His Isolation spell is bugged as previously reported (timer starts on first clicking ability, not when its actually cast at tower)
  2. It expires
  3. It is blocked by blue

b) DPS

  • no instant kill spell/ high dps ability to overcome hammers
  • takes waaaay to long to kill anything

c) Heal
No heal ability. Sitting duck.


#10

Would it be more viable to kill the storm tower first (aka the isolated tower) since it only has the 15% reduction in DPS where all the surrounding towers have the 90% reduction?


#11

I’d think you isolate the weakest tower always right? In most cases that’s the storm…if you’re isolating the strongest tower you wouldn’t be flying right. But then again I’m not at that level yet so just guessing based on the spell description.

Edit: you wouldn’t kill the isolated tower first - cos then the isolation effect ends. You’ll want to isolate the weakest tower (storm), kill the rest while their DPS is down, then kill the isolated tower last.


#12

Replying to this just to get my badge…yes call me a badge badger! :wink:

Edit: was replying via email… :wink:


#13

Makes sense to isolate the tower that does the least amount of damage, in this dragons case its the dark flak usually.

Doesn’t make sense to isolate a storm as its high on kill priority (else it just shields)

As soon as the isolated tower is killed the isolation spell disappears so you never want to attack the isolated tower


#14

@PGPulse @Arelyna

Any input/feedback re Girasol?

As you can see in the videos above he is completely broken. There arent even defenders.

Simply patching 5 levels onto him wont fix him. A lvl 9 noctua > expert girasol.

Compare him to moonfang

  • base increased rage regen
  • rage spell is.white, boosts dps rage regen and heals
  • so can use with mages around, and provided all.critical elements needed

Girasol:
He needs

fixed isolation with probably altered.mechanic ( closer to algors white roar)

Plus

Better dps ability

Plus

Heal of some sorts

Any plans on fixing your flagship warrior?


#15

I’m currently looking into Isolation! Thanks for the feedback. I think Isolation should provide great defense but it’s not doing that right now as much as we’ve expected. As suggested if it gives extra damage and heal, it would be great spell.


#16

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