Pathox OP or not too OP, that is the?


#250

i’m fully with you on that.


#251

Also it’s a bit mad that you now need fully maxed elite gear that maybe 1% of pathox flyers to even get close to the old damage. For people with just 50% or so gear bonus it got nerfed massively.


#252

That’s exactly what I’m saying. The original, pre-spell scaling version of the damage numbers felt about right… Pathox was definitely strong but could be countered by a good base. Something in the 8.0M-8.5M range would be appropriate for Chill’s damage with the kind of gear Lee has. 9.9M is too high, but 6.2M is way too low.


#253

Well for what its worth I just did some invader runs and Pathox was one-shotting with crippling chill again (unboosted). Not sure what that means but I’ll take it.


#254

True, I’m not at end game. I dont have the equivalent of a new car to drop on the game for a max base. But I have shot down many many harbinger Pathox and even the occasional vanguard pathox with my lvl 60 towers. So I very much disagree that he needed to be nerfed to less than pre scaling values. I also dont see a 27% increase in spell damage as game breaking or OP. Even with 9.9M it would take 3 shots to take down my towers, assuming the base was undefended. Add in shields, hammers, and supershots, and it would take skill, timing, and a bit of luck to get past my kill island with him.

Any dragon that requires skill and timing can’t be called OP in my book. Oni certainly doesnt require any skill, yet he was buffed, while pathox was nerfed?


#255

Hammer SPAM would take care of Pathox, no problem. Supercell saw an opportunity to shove Pathox way down the list of viable dragons and took it so the player base will focus on their new stuff right away. Not enough players were spending on UVS.


#256

Every dragon has a weakness. Necryx-remove Elemental Barrier. For Pathox, if your towers can outlast Spectral Form he’s done. I’ve seen it many times. Yes, it also comes down to who’s flying it. Had a recent war where we dropped, not 1, but 2 Emerald Paths. Obviously they couldn’t fly him. It all comes down to how you use him. He’s annoying, I’ll give it that, but OP and “unbeatable” is far from the truth. I’m not in any way, shape, or form saying I have the best layout, no. I made that noob mistake 2 years ago of having a full base. Shortened to 3 islands from 6 a few months ago so I’m suffering a bit. If someone casts spectral just a little late and you have an ice flak, he is in trouble. Path is a mixture just like any dragon of skill and spell timing. Just observances I’ve made about him since his release.


#257

I guess PG should start shoving Hog Riders.


#258

OMG, Busted. Same Tencent owned company right?!?!!?! Same BS. :joy::joy::joy::joy:
Same frustrations with them and let it bleed over here to PG. I’d pay to see hog riders jumping around wailing on towers here though.


#259

I was wondering why there was a skeleton with a bomb in my egg mission balloon.

Btw, on the 4.94 thread, Arelyna (sp?) says Pathox is 8%. Not sure how that correlates to the test data above.


#260

Going to be hard to back into it if there really is a non linear problem like Gox suggested in the other thread. Good news is Supercell, I mean PG will be offering Electro Dragon as the last festive. :rofl:


#261

So from 14% down to 8%? That’s almost half. Can someone tell me at exactly what %hp increase this change from spell dmg based on base hp to total hp gets beneficial cause reducing % by half like that SOUNDS like a nerf…


#262

Doing the math with arbitrary numbers you said this pretty well.

So if the original was 14% base hp, now its 8% of total hp, you still need Pathox boosted by 75% in order to even do equivalent damage as crippling chill before this “fix.”

PG unless my math is wrong (do correct me if it is) this is ATROCIOUS. How could you just apply a change like this so arbitrarily?


#263

I (think I) understand that since they are now basing it on HP that is modified by gear, boosts, etc… it would be a smaller percentage than when it was used on the non-modified “base” hp.

But originally it was said that simply putting the 30% boosts on would bring back to near “neutral”.

Guess it’s going to be a balance between being a base nerf like Red was saying and being a dragon nerf like it currently seems for pathox?


#264

So.

Here is the deal.

Original value was 14%
New value is 8%

That’s a 57% decrease. In order for the original statement to happen you needed this to be less than 30% decrease. This was apparantly necessictated by max bases due to max dragon hp being much higher.

Math:

BASEHP*0.14 = Before
BASEHP*(1+TOTALBUFF)*0.08 = After

Where TOTALBUFF is where you add all buff percentages together. So if for example you had 30% dragon hp buff, 40% rider hp, and no research or runes this would be .7 or 70%

In order to get what we had before 1.7 * 0.8 would need to be greater than 14% (and this example is just shy of break even.

But wait, there is more. What about pathox’s mythic glyph? At expert it’s 20%, so for those with expert glyph it makes it more like this:

BASEHP*(0.14 + 0.20) = Before
BASEHP*(1+TOTALBUFF)*(0.08 + 0.20) = After

So the same example 1.7 * 0.28 must be greater than 34% and it is at 47.6% this should see a net increase.

So realistically a lot of people have 40% rider and use 30% dragon buff, and also have research amounting to a decent amount. And a good amount have their mythic glyph leveled.

So I’m not sure there isn’t something else broken here.


#265

I don’t see how that would ever be the same then…

Assuming no gear, rider, etc… just add on boost

10 x 1.14 <> 10 x 1.30 x 1.08

I must be very confused


#266

Takeaway: you can’t implement spell scaling for existing dragons - particularly mythics given non linearity in hp progression - without making some people very angry. Solution: don’t do it for existing dragons; just implement for new ones. That way people can choose spellsets that work for their level. It would also help if hp progression were more even for mythics…


#267

No, the math is wrong if dmg is x% of hp:

Old spell no boost 10 × 0,14 = 1,4
New spell with boost 10 × 1.3 × .08 = 1,04

Which means crippling chill WITH boost ist 25% less effective than before WITHOUT boost.

See why people are mad?


#268

You want that to say 10 x 0.14 <> 10 x 1.30 x 0.08

Since the spell doesn’t do over 100% of hp
But just the 8% or 14%

BASE x 0.14 < BASE x BUFF x 0.08
0.14 < BUFF x 0.08
1.75 < BUFF

So you need at least 75% buff to stay even assuming no mythic glyph.

With an expert mythic glyph

BASE x (0.14 + 0.20) < BASE x BUFF x (0.08 + 0.20)
0.34 < BUFF x 0.28
1.2143 < BUFF

So with an expert glyph you only need about a 22% increase to break even


#269

I’m not sure that’s the conclusion but it probably would have been better than this current mess.

I think what should have happened is they should have given GPF feedback more weight and taken more time to find a better way or to smooth it out before releasing it