# Pathox OP or not too OP, that is the?

#270

Let’s see if I can follow the math now, using L37 as example. Modified HP of 37.4M×(.08+.20)=10.47
Yet actual damage is only 6.3M. Are you sure the glyph 20% is added to the 8%, or could it be HP×(.08×1.2)=damage?

Edit: That doesnt work out correctly either. Clearly we are still missing something in the formula.

#271

I’m not sure of anything, but that’s not 20%, that’s adding 20% to the spell percent not adding 20% to the 8%. And the resulting 9.6% does not result in anything close to the right answer either

I’m sure of my math. It’s anyones guess how it’s applied. The wording implies the spells effectiveness is increase by 20%, which would be 8% + 20% or 28%

I’m certain pg isn’t 100% transparent in what’s going on. Take corthinak’s white spell for example, it’s well documented it used base hp before the update, and yet if you level gear on a rider it increased damage. But not as much as it would have with modified stats.

I’m sure this change was huge and is probably deserving of a rollback as I don’t think they can untangle this mess for weeks

#272

How did you arrive at your modified hp?

Anything other than base hp and applying all of your buffs won’t be right either as the display doesn’t actually show all buffs

#273

The displayed HP shows everything except 30% consumables. 21% from research, 70.6% from rider and gear. 19.5M×1.916=37.36, which rounds up to 37.4M, exactly what is displayed.

Edited to add more numbers:Doing the formula the long way, 19.5×(1+.21+.706+.3)=43.21 modified HP
43.21×(.08+.20)=12.09
So if the formula was correct, I should be dealing 12.09M damage. Instead, I am dealing 6.7M

Old formula was baseHP×(.14+.20)= damage
Example for L37: 19.5M×(.14+.20)=6.63M, which was extremely close to the damage numbers I saw in my tests before the update. So I assume the modified HP used now isnt taking all buffs into account

#274

Are you happy now?? You just ruined a great dragon. Thank you PG. You know how to motivate players to go for Mythic…

#275

My money is on unininted changes, and the ballista issue is a prime example of why I think this.

But for sanity let me try it on mine (will edit this post with numbers until completed)

My pathox is expert level 60
Display shows 124M HP
30% buff is enabled
26% research (maxed for hunter hp)
20% expert pathox glyph (no hp runes)
35.7% dragon hp from rider + gear
10% hunter hp from rider skill
-3% totem debuff (for completeness in case I need it)

Calculated Max HP = 145,762,059

Damage appears to be 25,018,052 (verified on 3 different bases without wind totems or wind perches)

That makes absolutely no sense

Damage numbers show im getting about 17% of max hp, but it should be 20% + 9.5%

@DragonPunch can you help clarify why these numbers are not adding up?

#276

Should rename that threat to: Pathox is too UP!

#277

Bumping. I’d really like a response as to whether a nerf this big was really intentional or some quickly implemented oversight.

#278

They confirmed it was intentional

#279

Having flown Pathox with the new numbers, may I suggest we rename “Crippling Chill” to “Fluffy Snowball”?

I don’t know about the math people have done here, but I can see the results when I fly against live bases. Pathox still is quite good at invader though. Maybe he should be nerfed further so invader bases also stand a chance?

#280

Well I guess it’s good to know I never have to put in the effort to get a mythic divine again, seeing how they are made weaker than regular divines within a month of when I get them. Guess they are only meant for whales who get them in the first week.

#281

TL;DR: it’s an on purpose emergency corection that we don’t know if or how long it will stay

They purposefully nerfed the dragon as an emergency patch because maxed ones with maxed riders were prancing through the biggest most expensive bases in the game while triple defended.

They have not stated what their long term plan is, but I can’t imagine they can get away with leaving it as is.

That being said the math doesn’t add up with the damage numbers in game so possibly something unknown is wrong still.

I can tell you on my pathox which I don’t use much, it’s a bit stronger than it was before. But at my level I don’t have strong enough gear to fly it on bases I compete with. (My Itzani is 5.4b and it’s a little on the weak side for the bases I fly it against)

They nerfed it on purpose but the reason they nerfed it for was not expected. I wouldn’t assume it would stay.

If I depended on this dragon I’d be upset too, but pathox is stil quite a good dragon. Crippling chill being spammed is not the only or best way to fly it. It’s true that if you have the mythic glyph it should be stronger for nearly everyone and yet isn’t. So something still isn’t understood.

Ehh. I’d personally bet money it will be fixed. I don’t think PG fully is aware of everything that’s happened with the dragon. And others. A number of dragons which should not be even close to weaker are also underperforming for lots of people.

Mythic hunters have never been nerfed to useless as far as I can remember, but they always go through transitions. Neptus I think had some minor tweaks. Morphus has some major adjustments.

Mythic Warriors and sorcerers have a habit of being bad and getting nerfed to worse and staying that way. corrhinak is the only exception I can think of.

I’m sure you understand why if you had s choice between super powerful at the top, super weak at the bottom, and semi weak in the middle and slightly too powerful at the top, the last choice is the only choice that doesn’t destroy the game. I’d be upset too and keep up the pressure on PG to get th dragon back to something worth the sigils you paid for it.

#283

It far exceeded somewhat OP. It was extremely OP. I feel strongly that it should be further adjusted, but right now they had a few choices to deal with an emergency situation and the one they chose breaks the game less, so even if you don’t like it, that doesn’t mean it’s not better for the game as a whole. I would not stop pressing for them to adjust the dragon to be worth the sigils you paid for it with.

Without the bases it’s not war, it’s just “I win”. War requires competition.

This is actually exactly the opposite of the reality at the top end. I’m sure it’s sentiment like this that caused feedback to make PG nerf bases even more.

The reason bases are harder is more to do with people noticing defensive gear gets results and having successfully invested massive time, resources and money into it. The top end of the game has consistently been weaker and weaker.

The bigger problem here is inflation combined with how much success is money driven and not based on choices or hard work nearly as much.

Try dropping down a tier into a league/group you can compete with? As long as others have the same tools you do, many will outperform you. Yeah it’s more likely they will do so with money, but nothing we can do about that. Compete with the people you can compete with.

I’d like to see a lot less spending and a lot more strategy and hard work, but that doesn’t pay the bills sadly. Bases are easily 10 times more expensive than the dragons that can take them down. I’d also like to see the game slow down some. We don’t need 2 tiers a year. I’d rather see quality bases and quality dragons that you can spend a little time with before discarding them. That’s all my opinion though. Many probably disagree.

Feeling like you have a Chance is kind of more about setting goals that are attainable. It’s true PG has responsibility here, but it’s also all a matter of perspective.

#284

but in order to actually increase something by 14 percent you need the 1.14 when multiplying otherwise you only get the 14 percent and lose the original value.

10 x .14 = 1.4

10 x 1.14 = 11.4 = (10 + 1.4)

#285

ok whats more op

Pathox or Surt

#286

First i just wanna take a moment to fully appreciate this ridiculousness…such a silly statement, thank you.

Its not the dragons that suffer, too many excuses and not enough responsibility taken so that adequate effort is being made to learn, improve, and to put into adapting from failure to overcome adversity. The right dragons have never needed to be enhanced at all in order to win against a max geared defense to be honest, of course it would help but ur blaming weak dragons and strong bases when it honestly comes down to you and what you are willing to do in order to achieve success. Remember to have fun, without fun then what is even the point?

If you dont have atlas ur not very competitive to start with and dont belong in the conversation whining about anything at all quite frankly. Remember that everything is always your fault regardless of the circumstances… it helps, trust me.

Time. Effort. Willpower. Knowledge. Skill. Determination. Patience. Teamwork. Strategizing. Testing. Experience. Responsibility. …should i keep going or u get the gist of it? Try prioritizing your expectation of things because itll never be enough until you realize you will always have what it takes no matter how futile it may appear to be be, adapt.

This concludes my 10 cents on the matter and have a blessed day

#287

Haha yeah Surt is ridiculous, i knew right away it was gonna be boss AF and guaranteed to get nerfed.

#288

There is all kinds of broken through out scaling… it has forever seemed odd to me that I am as advanced in breeding as I can be and have maxed hut and maxed kill island and my best dragons can’t take my own base… yes my gear is slightly less on my dragons than my base, but not by much.

#289

Theres always a counter, for everything.

#290

I’m in the same situation and yet people at the top say that things there are tilted towards offense instead of defense. I assume that means most people (even those with the best bases) could take their own bases with their own dragons at the top levels? I guess it’s different up there than it is down here.