PGGalileo Office Hours (1/3-1/8)

Playing devil’s advocate here for a second - you’re the same person though, but the WD team has changed over the years, so even if they have some work experience coming in etc, they have no experience about the game/community/issues and whatnot, so I think that’s where that logic falls through a little

It takes time to rebuild that experience for the new people, and then if the team changes again, the process restarts

It’s unfortunate, but I don’t think this in particular is in PG’s hands :sweat_smile:

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During beta testing my team’s leader was gpf we were the first round of teams outside diamond to be added to the map we tested boats and a great many things!

At that time a group of teams tried desperately to tell pg that team based attacking and castles would never balance out combat wise and the lack of positional attacking would lead to severe lag and mega alliances!

After much yelling they made a half hearted attempt to place each players base on the map but didn’t move league ranking or supply a singular goal for all teams and by not moving rank to map they had no real way to drive escalation of combat .

And they refused to adjust movement which made it impossible then quickly scraped it and made the goal once again acquisition of defensive positions utilizing team based attacking that results in unmanageable lag.

Pg you created your own worst problem! :man_facepalming:

You did this after the beta testers told you that team based attacking and castles would only end in lag and mega alliances and stagnation we literally warned you this would be the results.

You are given feedback but you don’t utilize it and you have dug the hole
that is lag on this map directly against the feedback you sought and we were told the exact same thing your telling us today that we can’t possibly understand this game!

Odd because literally everything we said would happen has come to pass .

You created lag and until this map supports positional attacking and utilizess postional dominance to drive that attacking you will never eliminate lag or stagnation to a reasonable level.

And if it can’t be managed now how will the game grow?
Sorry this map will not support long term health or growth of the game if it’s lagging now it doesn’t bode well for the future.

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I agree here. PG hasn’t done ALL bad. This past 18 months may have seen a lot of bad but i can also honestly say it has done the most good as well. I’ve said it before in another post. With things like, season structure, trading post, riders, more teams than ever having atlas, rider gear, invokers (even though i personally don’t like them) etc etc. Being human we are ever the pessimists so tend to concentrate a lot on the bad and not on the good. I myself tend to post 50 to 1 in favour of the bad rather than the good.
I tend not to worry too much about how PG runs the game, so to speak. My biggest gripes are just when they change something that everyone is expecting and plan for (tower branch for instance) and make a really stupid decision like add the timers to a legendary dragon, thus alienating the majority of gamers. Or, likewise, the incessant need to constantly bring out new tiers and tower levels, thus alienating pretty much everyone but 5 percent of players.

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Trust you to come here and make sense. I hate you. Now get back in the garden patch with the other spuds and let me think of a new reason to tear gal a new butthole :kissing_heart:

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So to weigh in with what little it matters, the players will always do the unexpected from what the developers and even other players expect to happen. It is very hard to try to make something fun and be a middle ground, let alone try to make a game that will actually draw in revenue. (I honestly don’t know about the revenue part so I’m guessing. The one I was part of brought in just enough money in donations to keep the servers paid. We spent 12 hours a day working on the game essentially for free.) There is no “winning” an argument here. You either like it or you don’t, and the next person may be on the opposite side of the argument from you.

So to give a tiny bit of perspective. I was just complaining the other week that the season lines essentially forced me down a certain path. If I wanted a dragon besides the discount, I had to give up something else for it. If I wanted the timers to continue building, I needed to give up maybe getting a rider. So having a diverse set of resources in the different lines can potentially be a GOOD thing, not forcing people down 1 path. Though admittedly, it is still forcing players down a path. Without changing the entire season structure again, I don’t think you could fix that.

The real issue is there are many of us, players and developers, that get stuck in one way of thinking. It is really hard to break out of that thinking at times, other times it is quite easy to do. (Hence why all games since digital games have existed have bugs, the players WILL find things no one else thought about. This includes issues resulting in lag. Sometimes these get caught before release, sometimes they are patched after release, sometimes they aren’t touched at all.)

A lot of these changes to things you have to try to see if they work. I fully expect half of the player base not only do NOT read the forums or social media for the game, but also do NOT actually take any surveys. The only way to get info from those people is to actually try something and see what they do. Sometimes this means it is a surprising win (resurrection line), other times it means it is a spectacular flop (atlas shuffle maybe).

There are many different ways to actually play this game, the voices on the forum are the loudest on a few ways. Mech and Red really did push a lot of optimization tools available for the players, but there are many more who choose not to optimize or don’t care to look for it. In many ways, we may have done this to ourselves. We optimized our play so much, that anything not optimized has become an offense.

Many still play this game for fun. They come on, they fly dragons, they breed dragons, they build up their base, they hit enemies, but they don’t care they are progressing much slower than the “optimized” folks. They are here for fun. We laugh and call some of them sandbaggers because they are 450+ sitting in platinum 4 playing casual, but really they are playing the game they way they want to play. They are getting those lines we say are no good on the forums because they want them for their own reasons. Is their opinion and game play less important?

I was reminded of these facts in just the past few days by a teammate. I will paraphrase what she said. “Those who rush to end game and think that there is only one way to play are missing the fun in the journey to get there. What is the point of playing the game if you aren’t having a fun journey?”

So I will get off my philosophical box now.

@PGGalileo Could you please ask the season team to review the season line structure? The lines were changed a while back to this structure so that each “row” of a line had a certain cost. Dragons would grow in cost to the middle of the line and then taper back down. The prize amounts were put out according to the cost. The fact that the costs and prizes in the lines this season had changes mid-line really disrupts that flow. Admittedly, it just irks me. (Maybe it is just me.)

For example:
Fall 2020 Legendary Dragon price/prize groupings per line
image

Winter 2020/21 Legendary Dragon (Zel’Noth) price/prize groupings per line
image

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I just reached end game & Due to the recent inflation of sigil costs and annihilation of timers from the electrum lines,(Thanks to Omiros’s :poop: line)I just don’t see the value and relevance in spending sigils on mythic dragons every season.

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Sorry, but to @PGGalileo 's point about what people want not being unified, lag is not the number one problem for me. Mine is “PVPs are less fun”. Newer PVPs are less fun than older PVPs they replaced (notably Fight Pits vs. Capture the Flag/Tug of War), TR vs. whatever it replaced (KOTH, maybe, an old favorite). I did think KW was better than Conquer the World, but recent changes have degraded rather than improved KW game play. Increased emphasis on PVE is less fun, IMO. Not everyone plays Atlas - most everyone who plays, plays PVPs, if only for the personal prizes. Why not play for fun, too?

I’d like to see a new PVP in the rotation, and a general de-emphasis on PVE play, outside of mini events like assault and dungeons.

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I’m truly sad. I was waiting for the tower branch so I could get electrum bars AND timers, but now I need to get TWO lines to get those valuable resources. I don’t want to get a trash dragon (yet another) to be able to get a good amount of timers. I guess I wont get neither the dragon nor the tower branch and save my sigils for the festive dragon (I know, it will also be trash, but at least I will be able to buy draconic chests. I just hope PG doesn’t ruin those as well).

I guess I will also slow down my progress, because I’m not willing to spend my money on a game like WD.

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Just think this from the perspective of a new player who missed the previous howitzer/drakul lines; As a new player you want to build a howitzer, but you don’t have electrum bars, so you get the tower line. But now you don’t have the timers needed to progress on the game (keep in mind timers are also needed in other aspects of the game, not just during the fort event). Now you are forced to get TWO lines to be able to grow at a decent pace. That doesn’t sound very nice to me.

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I also would like to see rotation on Pvps and hate that we get Pits twice a season but compared to the problems with the lag in Atlas nothing matters and that I am pretty safe with saying goes for most players at least.

@PGGalileo can correct me or lay out the text I am sure on why we don’t have more different pvp events than we do.

As I have been told (and in here lays probably very much ppl say stuff cause it is lovely to be the one who knows stuff. Probably they “know”) PG doesn’t have full ownership of previous pvp events and that should be the reason they got scrapped. No idea if any truth what so ever in this but ofc it is possible that others have copyrights in events as developers depending on contract situation.

But we see these events being thrown up quite often so why were they scrapped? I have no idea. Are they viable today or what was the problem with these Pvp events that got them replaced. Maybe we don’t need to hear it from Galileo, those who was around and at that time also was tapped into the reasons behind I would love to hear about that.

And yes, PvE aint nearly as fun as PvP. But Atlas is a huge ongoing PvP that doesn’t follow a straight line and that we as players and teams evolve - I love that.

But still, until lag issue is fixed I can fly Pits every day as the pvp event if that would help fix the lag faster.

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Do most players play Atlas? I don’t know. But I’d think players playing main game is >> players playing Atlas, almost by definition. I personally don’t “play” Atlas much, as I pretty much think it sucks, due to a whole host of issues, of which lag is one. I’m there only for the gear. I’m on-board with @MALIK in thinking that there are systematic structural issues (castles/map) that really don’t make it viable.

A counterpoint to my point - lag is not solely an Atlas issue, it rears its ugly head in PvPs at times as well. It is definitely a problem, it just generally isn’t as game breaking as it is in Atlas. Personally I play for PVPs, and my interest in the game has been waning as the PVP play has degraded. Hence “improve PVPs” gets my vote for the most important priority.

None of us knows what is the most common thing players want as top priority, I think in all the big alliances that exist mostly due to Atlas that the majority within the alliances would say lag is biggest problem to be fixed.

Galileo also confirmed that lag spreads all over the game as did you. You want new PvP:s first. I want the root of the problems fixed first, the lag being heavily reduced. Then move on to other stuff.

We just have different priorities on what should be done first.

Happy flying
R

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This is probably the closest post that aligns with my personal philosophy about gaming (not just War Dragons). As I’ve mentioned before, I am an end game player on a couple of games, but in one game in particular. And before I started working in gaming (and thus seeing how the sausage is made)- I used to feel like many of you do about how developers run a studio or game. I think this probably helps me explain things (?) or have these conversations a little easier than my predecessors.

The team is already reviewing the structure of all the season lines that have yet to come out. They won’t change current lines.

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A functional map based on positional dominance and utilizing positional attacking would offer a plethora of opportunities for new event design based on the map these current atlas events are laughable and crude.

And a rework of all events should be something that happens not just core events!

At some point pg should really consider integrating core game and map :man_shrugging:

And yes fozzie it’s broken by it’s very design!

As long as acquisition of defensive positions is the goal of that map you will have lag and mega alliances and stagnation.

Once all defense positions are acquired stagnation sets in because the castles themselves create an equilibrium between offensive and defensive play that is the base cause of stagnation!
Sorry this is not my theory or my opinion it is a simple fact of basic game design :man_shrugging:

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You cannot speak for the non-existent unified majority of players. The “unified majority of players” is not a thing. I’m not saying that to be rude, or to try and call you out, I’m just trying to point out the logical fallacy that tends to permeate these conversations. Hopefully, me pointing this out gives you a more informed perspective on how the company is operating with data.

You are relying on forum data to inform your opinion. I’ve mentioned time and time again that forum data is not a viable means for the analysis it takes to run the game.

Forum data certainly IS an indicator, let’s get that straight, that’s why I do it. But no - even on bigger issues, players are not unified in thought and opinion.

I would suggest that what you are actually talking about is SENTIMENNT. SENTIMENT can give the illusion of unification because there are only three basic choices GOOD/NEUTRAL/NEGATIVE - when you divvy things up into three buckets - there are limited options. But as soon as you scratch the surface of what opinions/people make up those buckets… that’s when the unification starts to fall apart.

For example - three people may love hamburgers, they’d all be put into the “good” bucket. Now, ask all three people WHY they love hamburgers and you could get three totally different reasons. Person A may like hamburgers because they love beef, Person B likes them because burgers remind them of their childhood, and Person C likes hamburgers because they’re easy to make. All of a sudden instead of one “GOOD” bucket, you have three totally different opinions - even though, on the surface, they manifested as simply “good”.

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Lot of good points here. We had a meeting today where we mentioned much of this. We’re going to continue to try and tackle some of Atlas’ bigger issues!

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Yes, well said!

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Yes, I think I’ve also mentioned this before - the War Dragons team has the same name, but different players. Just like the Yankees have been the Yankees since the late 19th century, but the players have changed… even if the uniform is the same. Different versions of the team have different ideas of what needs to be prioritized, etc. The industry and playerbase has also changed in that time. Nothing happens in a vacuum. Change is constant.

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My question for Galileo is whether or not sharks are awesome

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Too many essays on this thread!

Bullet points, peoples, bullet points.

:fire::fire::fire:

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