Poll: Defining Dragon vs. Base Performance Expectations


#1

Last August I put together a poll investigating the playerbase’s interpretation of what “moderate spending” was. I would like to poll the playerbase again on a different topic: How much of a base do we expect a single dragon to destroy?

The poll asks four questions, each representing a different defended scenario (i.e., 0 defenders, 1 defender, 2 defenders, and 3 defenders). Assume that the flyer is of average skill, and defenders are motivated to win. Assume that the dragon in question is an Expert Unobtanium Legendary, corresponding to the same tier’s max-level towers. The base is a hypothetical mid-long setup with a rage-drain island on 6, 10 max-level towers, and max-level farms. Also assume that gear is comparable for both the attacker and the defender. Given these assumptions, respond to the following questions:

With 0 defenders, how much of the base should the dragon destroy?

  • 100%
  • 90%
  • 80%
  • 70%
  • 60%
  • 50%
  • 40%
  • 30%
  • 20%
  • 10%
  • 0%

0 voters

With 1 defender (base owner), how much of the base should the dragon destroy?

  • 100%
  • 90%
  • 80%
  • 70%
  • 60%
  • 50%
  • 40%
  • 30%
  • 20%
  • 10%
  • 0%

0 voters

With 2 defenders (base owner + 1), how much of the base should the dragon destroy?

  • 100%
  • 90%
  • 80%
  • 70%
  • 60%
  • 50%
  • 40%
  • 30%
  • 20%
  • 10%
  • 0%

0 voters

With 3 defenders, how much of the base should the dragon destroy?

  • 100%
  • 90%
  • 80%
  • 70%
  • 60%
  • 50%
  • 40%
  • 30%
  • 20%
  • 10%
  • 0%

0 voters

I’ll let the poll run until people seem to be losing interest in it (10 to 14 days, probably), at which time I’ll close it, consolidate the data, analyze it, and present the findings for general consumption.


#2

Doc did say it’s an "average skill"ed flyer.

Keep that in mind while voting. xD


#3

I think it’s interesting because probably most people think of base destruction as like the dragon is a lawn mower and the base is a track of grass and however far a long the track you get, that’s the amount of base destruction you get.

But the reality is different. Bases are incredibly front heavy. Strongest towers, the amount of available SS, and people are fresh on shields swords and hammers. If people use their ss and their hammers and the dragon breaks through (whether by destruction, disables, or pick and go), the vast majority of bases will simply crumble after that point bc there’s nothing a defender can do except shield and hammer.

Then there are those dragons that don’t need to act as a lawn mower and can instead pick off pesky weeds before moving on, leaving the majority of the base behind them, but without those key towers, the backing dragon has a much easier time mowing the lawn down. Fom, necryx noc hau prospero gunnar itz (barring his stupid death knoll, and only to a degree) and tuktu are examples of this (not an exhaustive list). These dragons don’t meet the % requirements of the base destruction on a double or triple defended base, but can set the base up for an easy clean. These are mostly good dragons, but by this poll would be considered bad.


#4

I agree with everything you said, and in my head while I was building the poll I was arguing over whether or not to try to tease this out (I also left out the “is it a hunter or a warrior or a sorcerer”). But in the interest of keeping it as simple as possible, I ended up going with this. Hopefully it will give us a baseline for further conversation. :slight_smile:


#5

Why did you include 70%, 80%, 90%? Anything over 60% is pretty much a guaranteed 100% due to the last HP of the base always being farms. (exceptions always apply, but don’t be dumb about your examples)

Or do you mean % of kill towers defeated?

For example, 60% of my base HP is contained in 8 of my towers. my other 3 towers do absolutely nothing to sway defeat % due to their level, and my farms contain the remaining HP. Very very very rarely does someone do between 20-60% if i’m defending. Its usually <8% or 100% defeated, very very very rarely is it anything else.


#6

Oops lol

I was just doing what I would do. Like 100% on triple defended? Ya that’s me hah


#7

I answered very broadly and ignoring the wild variables out there.

Hell this could be separate polls for dragon classes, different styles of dragons (setup dragons) and defensive styles.

Answering this I have assumed these were war runs with the % being something preventing the best result. So I have included non combat towers (farms) in it as a lack of damage or the healing from hammers could prevent a 5 flame. I have also ignored any form of setup dragons as this would be covered in two man runs unless they have the potential to solo.

I think an interesting second set of polls would be two man runs as even the 10% runs could make the followers run substantially easier.


#8

The formulation in another thread was more realistic* to me because of what the others said: how many flames what percent of the time. You can think of what percent of your own flights if your flying is variable or what percent of flyers if you’re an ice machine, cool and consistent.

Is this a divine or lineage legendary, or should it not matter? Are we answering about what we expect in today’s game or how it should be in the platonic ideal of War Dragons? (I know “should” is right there in the question, but…)


#9

My opinion I believe a lead flyer job is to gut/Set up the base not solo it, so the second flyer got a easier time cleaning up(Keep in mind this is a “War Run” so there’s only two flyer’s)


#10

Messed up my final vote but all well lol


#11

Think we can change our vote.

Hide result, and vote again…


#12

I assumed it was either a hunter/sorcerer since u said ‘moderately skilled flier’ and warriors tbh don’t require any moderate amount of skill


#13

You should also differentiate between legendary and mythic. And against what level towers.


#14

He did, on both counts.


#15

I voted middle of the road. I expect different results from an average skill flier with different classes. An average skill hunter should get more % for the risk of flying something that requires greater skill. The risk with a hunter is one mistake and you go from easy cleanup for #2 to hope you can solo with no rage bro. The vast majority of warriors are very small change in result from little skill to expert. Aka the fight is almost predetermined in out come. Sorcerers are in the middle. I think a warrior should be tuned so that 3 dragons can reliably finish the base for normal runs, 4 dragons for a war defense. Little skill required, little variation in result shouldn’t be a sure 5 flame. On the other end a very skilled flier with a hunter should be able to solo or setup the base. A poor hunter flier should get <10% even undefended. I’m not saying a hunter should be a sure win. I’m saying they should be difficult to fly and there should be a reward to it. If you make an I win dragon that a toddler can steamroll every base it is no fun for anyone. The I win owners will get bored eventually. The defenders will get frustrated quickly.


#16

Because in my mind, if I hadn’t included the percentages, I would have been answering the opposite of your question, and I think there are more people who think of bases in raw percent completed than in “how much of the base percentage is housed in the farms”. When I started, I did do 100%/80%/30%/10%/0%, but I didn’t want to talk about why I was using those values. Your way is absolutely more accurate, but I thought the average flier, player, and responder will find this easier to relate to. Your observations are 100% accurate, of course.

Yep. Let’s see where this one goes; at the very least, I’m hoping to have some interesting conversations around the topic.

Understood, but we’re talking about a single legendary dragon. The flames system is based on more than one dragon. The only question you can really ask with the flames system with only one dragon is “should the dragon get 5 flames or not?”

Agreed, but this is really just about the single legendary dragon. The delineation between setup/cleaner would be extrapolated or discussed separately.

Thanks for the participation so far, all!


#17

Also, along with what doc said, not every one can clear super spam hammered farms and certain classes certainly have a hard time. That said I don’t know if maxed farms have higher hp than DF :man_shrugging:t2:


#18

They do. 25.8 m (farms) vs. 23.8 m (dark flak)


#19

The results of this poll are disappointing and make me glad PG ignores the forums more these days.


#20

Haven’t looked into it yet…would be interested in your uptake on this though.