Recycle towers from storage

I wasnt lucky enough to have this option when you let some players test it out i would like it to come back for any body please recycling old towers

Not sure what you mean by “recycling”?

The option to merge or transform old towers has been in the game for about a year now, so you can use that any time you want. To transform a tower put it on your base and use the “transform” button next to the upgrade button. To merge towers, select the target tower, click “upgrade” and then use the “merge” tab to merge one or more towers (towers used for the merge can be in storage).

Check this calculator if you want to experiment with it before commiting to a merge/transform in game.

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The towers you want to sacrifice must be lv 10 or more for it to work too. Dropping this here just in case…

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The xp calculators are kinda bonkers.

I put in a level 67 ice flak to improve.

Added a level 25 cannon: -1250 xp
Switched to a l 25 treb: -5511 xp (treb is more than cannon?)
Went back to cannon: -1230 xp (why did it change?)

Added both: -112,741 xp (nowhere near 1250 + 5511).

This is not necessarily to say there is anything wrong with your calculator - I’ve noted several inconsistencies/oddities in the in-game calculator, too.

I can guarantee you it didn’t.

As for the rest, it’s not inconsistent at all if you understand how the calculations between merges work, the comparison you’re making with the towers here by and adding up xp deficits makes very little sense, but I don’t really feel like doing a whole post on merge mechanics right now.

Aww man. I was really hoping for a random in depth post about how merge mechanics work. A real shame you won’t make one
/s

Yeah, 1230 it is, no matter what I do.

Whatever the merge mechanics are, adding a second small tower to a merge, yet still increasing one level, yet getting a 10x cost xp, may be well defined in an algorithmic sense, but hardly makes “common sense”.

So … you wouldn’t want to see a post on merge mechanics by Morreion?

As for recycling, do you mean like remove the towers from storage?

True that’s an option but you have to pay back all the XP. For smaller towers it isn’t much of a big deal, but as you grow merging becomes more costly.

If you are referring to transforming or merging, that function is still there. You can use @Morreion ‘s web-based version to test out or the original, spreadsheet version I created: NidoGod’s Transform and Merge Tool

I tried coming up with an explanation, then gave up because I was struggling with numbers… However it makes sense to me that merging towers will end up in Base xp debt, and that’s not as simple as individual debt A + individual debt B, I just can’t seem to be able to explain how with simple numbers :slightly_frowning_face:

It’s however in relation with how much xp you get by upgrading X tower to next level and the xp you got in total by upgrading the sacrificed tower(s) if I’m not mistaken.

If you only get 1 tower level more by sacrificing one tower, and the same 1 level upgrade by sacrificing two towers for instance, the xp of the second tower doesn’t disappear into thin air, it gets added to the xp required to level up your Base level.

In short, it means that the total xp of the second tower wasn’t enough to push tower X past 1 more tower level, but the game can’t just accept the xp disappears since it allowed you to gain a Base level once upon a time.

So it gets added in full to the xp needed to gain a Base level.

Total xp to level up a trebuchet to level 25 =

(Credit @OrcaFrost and @Zamirathe)

Add to this your 1230 debt from cannon and you obtain… Tadaa! 112,741 Base xp debt.

You are also merging lumber towers - which have significantly less value in terms of resources - into a premium ember tower, so you get a penalty merging these towers…

I’m speculating though, I don’t remember the official statement when merging was released, it’s already been a long time ago and it had many numbers in it… :pleading_face:

More than that I’m getting a migraine trying to juggle with too many numbers :dizzy_face: I hope I didn’t say too much rubbish, that would reflect badly on me even though I’m self-proclaimed mathematically-challenged :sweat_smile:

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Some tools will help :upside_down_face:

(credit to @Zamirathe)

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Insert loud head banging for being an exhausted dumdum

Thanks Orca. I should have known better…

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What the hell is this nonsense post about?

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There are three penalties and which are conditionally applied depending on the nature of the merge/transformation:

  1. Immediate value penalty upon initiating the merge/transform

  2. XP debt incurred from sacrificed towers (exacerbated when transforming up tower tiers

  3. XP source cap rule. Special case where the value of a sacrificed tower would give more levels than the total XP sacrificed would allow (prevents leveling up by merging)

Is this what you were referring to?

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Don’t try to make sense of this god forsaken thread Nido… your brain will just hurt for no apparent reason

Ahhhhhh!!! make it stop mike!
Oh for the love of all that is holy …make it go away :rofl:
It tears at the mind :crazy_face: lol

Only Kidding around but it is really hard to follow lol

Hey guys that’s kind of rude :disappointed: I did my best to make sense of the numbers that were given by FozzieBear who was confused… :cry:

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You did better than most!! and I’m just impressed you tried :sunglasses::facepunch:
Trying to work the numbers out on that is painful
I commend you for even trying!
Pg math is pure insanity lol

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I’ll foreword this by saying I am not picking you apart, specifically, @FozzieBear; rather, I am using your post to help explain some of the intricacies of the merge transformation feature and the mathematics/concepts behind it.

The calculators (both mine and @Morreion’s) are correct in this case.

This must be a typo or quick scan error.

Also confirmed. Lumbar only towers actually have two groupings within their tower tier (much the same as common red tier dragons did). Cannons and archers are distinct from Mages (R & B), Trebuchet, storm tower, ballistas and lightning tower. The cost and time to upgrade and XP gained are markedly different; therefore, they have different values at the same level. This is exacerbated in the lower levels. Want to verify yourself? You can check an independent source here and here. Also, this is not a recent change as can be verified on Amoeba’s site.

This result is not intuitive but does make sense when you adopt the perspective that all transformations and mergers are done as a cumulative tower value transaction. Unless the Source XP Cap Rule is invoked, XP deficit is a by-product of value transfer.

Cumulative tower value is based on the resources (both material and time) corrected for current discount applications (so a tower’s value will change over time while held at a constant level). That means that the tower values and cumulative experience in the above transactions are:

Recipient Tower

Tower Lv Value XP
Ice Flak 67 475,470 3,035,021
Ice Flak 68 482,844 3,141,021
Difference 7,374 106,000

Donor Towers

Tower Lv Value Conversion Value XP
Cannon 25 13,428 12,757 107,230
Trebuchet 25 14,007 13,306 111,511

Now the numbers are out of the way, we can see what really happens. Roughly 7.3k extra value is required to bring the Lv 67 flak to Lv 68 and, after the conversion penalty of 5% tower value is applied, the Cannon and Trebuchet will offer 12.8k and 13.3k, respectively. This is clearly enough to gain a level so the tools and game will register this as a viable option. The XP deficit is then calculated as an after thought based on the cumulative XP of the Cannon and Trebuchet, 107,230 and 111,511, respectively. As only 106,000 is granted from levelling a flak from 67 to 68, the excess XP you once had but are sacrificing needs to be added in deficit to your current player total.

Cannon: 106,000 - 107,230 = -1,230
Trebuchet: 106,000 - 111,511 = -5,511

This seems straight forward when outlined this way but only if one accepts the perspective of viewing towers as a unit based on their hidden value.

As for adding both towers at once; there is not enough additional value added by both towers to level the flak to 69 so the value of the second sacrificed tower is needlessly donated to the PG gods and lost in the ether for a pure XP debt. If you were to increase the cannon to Lv 27, this would now provide a cumulative value from both towers to increase the flak to Lv 69 and would incur a lesser -51,541 XP deficit.

Edit: typos and readability

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