Request for PG: Regarding Obsidian tier vs new tier coming

Hi TeamPG.

This is a request/request for discussion regarding not releasing a new tier dragons in the next couple of weeks. I know there is a new tier designed already, but could you perhaps use those dragons but implement them at obsidian level? Or hold them back, and design some new obs ones instead?

Now, I understand that there is a need for content, and a need to have certain players that have unlocked all content, have an avenue to spend. This is fine of course,

What I’m pleading for, is that instead of launching a new even stronger tier, is that you instead release another 3 dragons in the obsidian tier.

The main reason for the request is the inevitable power jump that occurs with new tiers, essentially making the previous tier nearly worthless, except maybe 1 dragon per tier, and one tier further back completely worthless.

E.g. Look at Emerald dragons vs level 60 towers - pointless. What this comes down to is you are basically excluding everyone not in the latest two tiers from high level gaming (diamond).

The idea behind diamond as far as I’m concerned, is to have the highest skilled players compete, not artificially limiting it to the highest spending only

(once again - I’m not anti-spending, in fact I spend a lot, but I do want team members that don’t spends thousands a season to still be able to compete on skill basis, not quit cause it doesn’t matter how well they fly their emerald dragons, they can’t dent 60s defended)

Mythic obsidians, worth of the name mythic.

The tier has some serious shortcomings

  • most of the dragons are breed and drop dragons
  • most of them aren’t really up to taking on level 60 towers
  • the three mythics only one is really worthwhile, one has some serious shortcomings (mafic), and one is utter rubbish (girasol) ---- we had seperate threads on those two, and I assume some balancing will be done.

Would it be so bad, to release 3 more mythics? And maybe just have some input from higher teams/players regarding the usefuless of certain spell combos?

There is a glaring gap in obsidian
Hunter - finisher dragons/wings (last good one was Ferga)
Warrior - both lead and wing
Sorceror - Finisher dragon

As discussed elsewhere, you really need a sorceror that can blow stuff up as long as the base is prepared properly. In other words one without a minion leading that unsands and unlocks all disabled towers.

For hunters - there is a need for a dragon that can finish off defended bases that are well prepped (tweaking mafic might be sufficient)

For warriors - you need a tank. Thats useful vs defended bases.

Anyways, although I have some ideas on HOW these dragon skills could be combined etc, its kind of a moot point to discuss unless we can somehow get a discussion going on not releasing another tier.

Could you please provide some input regarding PG thoughts on why a new tier is better than say adding more dragons to obsidian? In turn I’m sure myself or many other players can provide input on why adding a new tier is not good, and why adding more obsidians are better?

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I totally agree with your review of the Obsidians. But I can’t see why it would be better to release more Obsidians vs. release a new dragon tier? :thinking:

Main reason of not shoveling out a new tier of dragons was mentioned earlier:

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Hmm, an entire two replies?

So perhaps I should rephrase then:

To the player base: Are you all keen on a new tier next week?

  • Yes! New more powerful tier soon (probably next week, or first week of new season)
  • No! Add more options to existing tiers without increasing overall power level
  • Who cares? I’m stuck in the sapphire wall and won’t see even obsidian tier in 2018

0 voters

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Yeah :thinking: new dragons are new dragons, token hole from a new tier or more obsidians seems relatively the same (outside of mythics, which we know won’t be the dragon to get anyway since they’ve been decidedly shameful since Hau). New tier would have higher power, but they’d both be hitting level 60s, or this more worrying over 65s? If it’s higher tower levels, agreed, no more…for like…a year :eyes::joy:.

What would happen is obsidians would become near obsolete, and emeralds would be obsolete.

They essentially already did this with introducing 60 towers. This point is if you bring out a new tier now, with a massive power jump, the people which are full on 60’s will complain that their bases are getting solod, and 65 towers will follow just around the corner

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Okay, got me lost at the non-spender plight, seemed to insinuate that shinier drags make older ones worthless, but it was about the towers. Was just tryna find the crux of the thread :slightly_smiling_face:.

No not really. I have the entire lineage bred (well except the ones I see no point in getting), but I am a guild leader in d1 and have to look out for the well-being of my team. It sucks if players quit because of tier releases. So if they release another tier now, what will happen is there will be a 30-40% power jump between obsidian and unobtanium/dollarium (sorry stealing the two names I saw today) tier.

This has a direct effect

  1. The previous tier that 99% of the population group hasn’t seen, becomes obsolete, except perhaps for one dragon.
  2. It makes most players that have slogged through emerald in the last few months, react by giving up / not bothering anymore. Always shifting the goal posts makes it so that players stop spending
  3. It will generate an automatic cycle of people complaining that the new dragons are overpowered, with pg then replying that the tower levels should be increased to compensate etc.

So, complaining about a new tier after its announced has never worked - I’m hoping that discussing bringing new dragons in at existing power levels will keep most sides happy.

Very high Spenders can spend
Medium spenders can still spend to catchup to endgame
Lower spenders won’t totally give up
Non-spenders are not affected

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I dont see a point in releasing 3 more mythics. Sapphire had 3 mythics where only 1 is useable in my opinion. Garnet had 3 mythics. Same as emerald. None of them is a dragon i use on real bases. Lineage dragons are only to break the cap for divines in my opinion. Or are u using xenot, storm or nier on real bases or pvp? I dont

There will be always people who get bored cause of new tower lvls or new tiers cause they dont catch up… but most of all its a company who wants to get their servers and staff paid and earn money aswell.
If they release a new tier i wont be mad. Im at emerald atm. Not far away from obsidian. But no one forces me to spend more or less. Im also a moderate to good spender. I play a bit more then 1 year now. I think D1 eggs and daily beta tribute also helps non spender to get their dragons breeded

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Lineage dragons are the go to dragons for war at the moment. Noctua, probably mafic if fixed
Ferga
Hauheset

Generally speaking the divines aren’t great, with the occasional exception . But to each his/her own.

The logical caveat is that the new mythics need to be properly designed, not just rubbish breeders

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Noctua is a legendary dragon.
What i was trying to say is that every tier from sapphire to Obsidian has 3 mythics. Why involve more? Xenot and stormheim for example arent worth maxing. Nier is average. We also dont wanted to involve more mythic emeralds for example.

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I agree that ferga is way better than mythic emeralds

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Yea, the mythic dragons are becoming. “hyperboles.” My Doomedclaw was added to the perch roster recently. :frowning:

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Yes, but thats a design mistake by PG. They design mythic dragons based on poor understanding of game mechanics - they simply aren’t at a high enough tier in the game to understand that a dragon that flies on a test base =/ war dragon in defended wars.

This has been proven without a doubt by looking at 90% of the dragons in each tier since sapphire

  • Sapphire had 3 useful dragons (Sekhem, Hauheset, and to a lesser degree Apophet)
  • Garnet had 3-4 depending on your point of view ( Frostbiter, Zaru and A&A plus minus icicle - generally not great)
  • Emerald was even worse - Ferga was excellent, deci strormheim and Nier was ok. Rest was pretty much pointless for wars
  • Obsidian has Noctua and Rhyo. Mafic has potential but not there yet.

So is my pespective tainted? yes of course - I simply measure dragons at endgame on if they can be flown in a war with defenders - if not they are perch/breed fodder.

Is that the correct way to assess dragons? No idea. They are designed for end game, and end game is wars at a high level.

Having said that stormheim was worth maxxing when emerald was top tier. Quite a few diamond teams ran him as a wing with a lot of success (excluding myself here as I’m not a big warrior fan and fly hunters only).

The fact that legendary dragons >>> mythics, is something PG should fix. The mythics per definition should be better than the legendaries.

Also I should clarify - I meant add 3 mythics to obsidian tier, not add more dragons to earlier tiers.

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From an (almost) bottom feeder that is still plowing through garnet in the mad scramble to uncap divines I can only say from the bottom of my heart that the timespan between new tier releases is far tooooooooo short even for the more engaged players that haven’t yet reached lvl gazillion …

I already feel as if I’m never going to halfway catch up with top brass … and I’m a) a moderate continuous spender and b) an always “very active” player …

The most sensible thing for the BROAD player base and motivation for newer players at this stage would be to shelve the new tier for another season. We’re gonna get the set of new seasonals in a few weeks time …l isn’t hat enough excitement to keep people interested and busy?

I agree with @Gox1201 … at the present rate it’s frustrating for mid- and lower lvl players. They look at the mountain they still have to climb and just give up … I don’t blame them.

And launching crap xtra dragons that cost yet more sigils or rubies (Ember … Nydr) doesn’t quite do it either…

D.

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I hope we all realize by now that a few people on the forum telling them to slow down isnt going to do anything whatsoever.

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Yup … doesn’t mean we can’t say it.

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Personally, I think it is too late - the horse has bolted. Winter Dragons are designed and will have an Unobtainable (great :joy:) stone at least for the mythic and I believe that also the new tier is already designed. I’d rather prefer to breed Mafic as my second Obs. Mythic and get Girasol with a backbreed from the new tier, as both of them a really a waste of tokens. :roll_eyes: Maybe they could at least fix Mafic.

This is exactly how I picture the player base distribution. 3% of the population driving 97% of the content and changes. There are a few dozen players fully maxed, and tens of thousands nowhere near it. Even assuming 1 fully maxed player per team above S2 (all 60s, all drags at expert) that’s less than 200 people dictating the frustration of the rest.

There are 5x that many recently abandoned accounts over level 200. Thousands more abandoned at level 60-80 (which is someone who enjoyed the game, and could have been a long time player, but saw no reason to continue).

Higher leagues are cannibalizing imploding teams to keep their roster competitive (new blood willing to put up with everything for long enough to grow… is rare - takes a lot of work from everyone on the team to keep them enjoying it and pointed in the right direction). Folks running at minimum 2 accounts (often more). Bronze-Gold populated primarily by 2nd (3rd, 4th) accounts of the folks in S-D OR small groups rebuilding after an implosion.

Atlas was a huge investment. This doesn’t seem like a company who wants to make a butt load of money and then cut and run. But the snake eating its own tail eventually reaches vital organs… and dies.

We need people to feel they have at least a chance of becoming competitive without taking out a second mortgage. We need players to persist through the glitches and the greed and feel like they can contribute to their team.

Some suggestions:

  1. Add new dragons to the lower tiers. Dragons that are relevant to the game as it is today (Flak resistant, Fire and Ice resistant). Amarok, Ettin, Cons, and the mighty Khrysos were my beloveds when I first came up the ranks - there isn’t a single dragon between Red and Platinum now that will get a player excited to finally break through and kill a decent base. Before everyone screams “event dragons” … ummm no. Their power scaling is off to the extent that they’re only really useful past a certain tier. They can’t replace a good, solid, legendary Orange, Green or Gold designed for today’s turrets.

  2. New lower tier dragons opens up the possibility of new breeding paths to help bust through the Sapphire wall. Those of us who are past it - suck it up… we NEED new blood to survive - we can’t just keep stealing each other’s players forever. This will give new players some hope.

  3. Give us something we can use Fire and Ice shards for. Not elemental ember. Not black pearl. Shards. Or at least let us share our shards with teammates. We’ve got billions of those wasting away doing nothing.

  4. Forgeable runes and silver chests that are actually relevant. Runic chests once again cater to the 3% and leave everyone else out in the cold. If I see even one more legendary evasion imma … well, you get the point. Make them scarce, or take a long time to forge - fine (not in it to bankrupt PG) but make it POSSIBLE.

Alternatively, Runic = ONLY X, Y and Z runes, Silvers = ONLY A, B &C runes. I would spend on a set of runics if i was 100% sure I wouldn’t end up with the same junk that’s in the Silvers (more poison resists and… evasion Grrrr)

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‘Nuff said

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