Seeking Clarification

@PGCrisis @PGEggToken (including @pgEcho because this happened in Atlas)

From the TOS for “the service,” available here: https://pocketgems.com/terms-of-service/

“(x) cheat or use, develop or distribute automation software programs (“bots”), “macro” software programs or other “cheat utility” software program or applications which are designed to modify the Pocket Gems experience to the detriment of fair play.”

So, we have four categories here:

  • automation software programs (“bots”)
  • “macro” software programs
  • other “cheat utility” software program
  • applications which are designed to modify the Pocket Gems experience to the detriment of fair play."

The last is obviously a catchall for any application that modifies the game experience “to the detriment of fair play.”

I am curious is this is a bannable offense? Obviously, I’m not really curious–the TOS say that it is. My question is more – what proof is necessary for PG to act on the blatant use of these “tools” by some to gain an unfair advantage in game play?

If we know what evidence is necessary (although, really, should players have to provide evidence, or should PG be actively collecting and acting on it?), then we will know what to include in our tickets when these “enhancements” are obviously being used.

You may wish to review ticket number 1155101 as a place to start, although, I’m sure there are plenty of others.

Thanks!

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I do not think they are able to answer
Since if you ask the answer is never technical details or concrete evidence for which they ban people but only their hypotheses drawn from some bugs created by themselves
And always the same answer from assistance

I still would like an answer. I realize it may be a little before PG can provide one.

Even if it is not the answer I would like, I believe all the players deserve to know how to respond to this kind of violation of their access to a service that provides for “fair play.”

Any evidence a player provide could potentially be bias and/or temper with, at best a player can spark an investigation of an account. I don’t see how any evidence provided by a player can lead to an immediate ban.

Also macros and bots would probably be next to impossible to detect on this game, unless they have them running 24/7.

Or they played perfectly? Like, so perfectly that even the best players can’t duplicate some of the things that have been shared with me?

Proof? No.

But if it looks a duck. . .

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And really… Should players have to be providing evidence?

Shouldn’t systems be in place to detect this? Computers are much better at "seeing ’ some things than humans are.

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Like i said you could maybe spark an investigation but I don’t think just because they did a perfect run is an immediate giveaway, this game has no real ranking to determine who the best players are. The people you know as best players are the ones who share videos and make themselves known, that doesn’t mean there aren’t plenty of others just as good or better that keep to themselves.

Yes and no, bots and macros are extremely hard to detect in any game, once a specific macro code is known to the game developers they could try to detect a third party software running that specific code.

There is no magical solution to avoid hacks/exploits, there will always be a new one that requires additional security to tackle that specific problem.

Nope. It is a constant game of cat and mouse, one I am quite familiar with because of my job.

But if the same tricks that worked a year ago still work today, how much confidence should players have that War Dragons is a “fair” place to spend their time or their money?

And to be clear, the best players I know don’t post videos. And maybe I was not talking about a perfect attack. I suspect a good attack bot or macro would be specific to a particular dragon, would need to be updated any time new tower types are released, and would be more difficult to program.

What kind of bot or macro would not be affected by these things?

Remember, path of least resistance.

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Right but wouldn’t you agree that hackers often get punish for it? Most of the people that got banned in this last wave were purchasing the hack, they lost all the money/time they invested on their account. (although apparently accounts who only hacked clocks/tokens did not get banned)

Right that’s my whole point. This people you know are amazing fliers according to you, yet I don’t have a clue who they are because they simply don’t make themselves known. There are plenty of those around.

Yes a macro would have to be specific to a dragon, but once the macro is up and working adding new tower priorities to it would be fairly simple. The difficult part is making the macro, once the macro works editing it to accommodate dragon/spells/towers is childs play.

Actually hackers not spending time at all
You can see a lot of ppl coming back again and again after ban waves

oh they spend time, they grow 10 to 100 times faster but trust me they did their time.

My question is more about enforcement of the TOS and less about what techniques any person or team is using to alter the “fair play” aspect of the game.

Lets not make it too technical, any abuse of something in game just report it then they will investigate.

How to understand or how would u know someone is cheating?

Answer: if they are dumb enough to show it.

About like someone dropping hammers every 3 seconds :woman_shrugging:t2:

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@Zazrak

Exhibit A:

Excuse the blur - but you get the point … so can that be explained?

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These violations of the TOS are all bannable.

The proof is found by our tools or through internal auditing.

Are you asking if players have to provide evidence that someone else is cheating, or are you asking what evidence a player needs to be provided to show their account isn’t cheating?

So, in the case you provided someone appears to take an action or actions that should be outside the bounds of ability. This could be for one of two reasons:

  • They’re cheating
  • There is a problem with the game that displays these actions to the player incorrectly

In a case like this an agent will audit the reported account to make sure no cheating actually took place. If cheating did take place, it will be handled in accordance with our policies.

I know this isn’t likely the answer you’re looking for, and if you want to ask more questions I’ll try to answer as I can.

Correct. That’s something we look for. “technically possible” and “possible by a human in the flawed universe we exist in” are completely different things.

Systems are in place. Those systems are not perfect, but we shouldn’t let perfect be the enemy of good. I don’t want to put words into your mouth, but it seems like a common argument being made is “if PG doesn’t have universally perfect understanding of cheats and universally perfect detection of cheats then cheating should be allowed” which doesn’t really sit right with me. If I’m interpreting your statement incorrectly, let me know.

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So, @PGJared - you’re saying it’s possible for one person to throw hammers 3 seconds apart? Along with other defenses??

Dang … I must have the wrong version then :face_with_raised_eyebrow:

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Or did I misunderstand that reply?

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No, I didn’t say that.

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Do these cases go to more experienced/well-versed agents, or can any agent handle these?