Once you get to D1, you’re at the top. Why risk getting bumped out by losing a war? At D1 you can just focus on events and atlas now.
Most of the competetive teams have the big dragons with great gear. Even against maxed bases, they’ve figured out strategies to get the big base undefeated with really good flyers.
Pretty much answers itself. Lower leagues are meant to be training leagues. But if you get the player that needs to take a break so he posts up in gold, teams aren’t going to stop him/her or beat his/her base. But the issue here is, you cant force somebody to be in a certain league just because they are high level.
Because unlimited attempts at every base are allowed.
Because some high level players are in leagues meant for ‘lower levels’. As someone else said, you can’t force someone to go to the league their level ‘should’ be if he (or she, obv) doesn’t have the time or inclination. In my opinion the current league system promotes this particular behavior.
Balance is shifted to those teams where time for war start is convenient. War could start 3-4 minutes after declaration, so for me it is 04:00 (night). Almost noone from team is online. So when everyone gets up - we could see that 1) war was declared, 2) other team got already 200 flames, and we just got 4-5 defence points. There is no way to know in advance.
Another thing is sandbaggers. 1-2 person with 400+ lvl in platinum, so other team does not even bother to defend - noone can pass those bases. Such team could declare war several times in a week. No fun. Apparently, when team asks for help and brings a friend (some call that person a “ringer”), who destroys problematic base, there are usually whining about " cheating", non-fair play, call to other teams to declare war, etc.
Inconvenient way to organize waves. Hard to distribute all enemies before team members when there are a lot of people online.
I’m answering your question without reading all other post, try to be as unbiased by them as I can
I’m sitting currently in middle Plat1, but was up until Saph2. Playing the game for 3 years now. Until this season, always in international teams. So my perspective is far from the “top competitive” scene.
The biggest problem I see is the time commitment. Be it for the war officers to plan the waves, or for the players to participate in the waves.
Even here in Platinum1 most (admittedly not all) wars end with 250/250. So waves are needed and the team needs idiots like me who are online during the war 18h (even while working), hoping to catch as many defenses as possible. This may be fun for me, but it certainly doesn’t apply to many other (casual) players in the mid/lower leagues. Even I as a passionate player can only do this to a limited extent.
A very good decision I made this season was to move to a local team. So we’re all in the same time zone, which simplifies a lot.
International teams that have trouble organizing big waves can’t prove the effectiveness of this strategy. This confirms those players who don’t participate in the waves that the effort isn’t worth it. This in turn leads to the team leadership burning out slowly but surely. So you’re pretty quickly in a downward spiral.
In addition, the “frustration potential” is too big if a single player does not get his attack in. This leads time and time again to (sometimes even violent) discussions within the team, which then have to be mediated (again by the leadership -> even more burnout for them). (Sidenote: account sharing is against TOS, which would minimize the problem a bit or at least takes some pressure away)
And why all this stress? Just to get a few more Sigils?
At the end of the day it’s just that the leadership decides when and how often wars get declared. And the worse the effort / return is, the more hesitant they become.
I feel that it’s been established that wars are an utter wares of time. I am in a small group in gold 3. The team is barely growing if people want to have fun they should go to lower league’s and help people coming into the game or help people stay on track to becoming decent players. We only war down here to keep from going down into dead leagues. This game is not a fun one cause it’s more competition than enjoyment. Wars in my eyes are simply to see who is best but in lower league’s it’s different cause it’s all about survival and a little higher up Are grudge matches and at the very top I can’t say cause I’ve never been.
Agree, this is a big one for me. You lose a war because one person doesn’t show and it is a blow to morale for the whole team. Winning a war doesn’t feel nearly as good as losing a war feels bad. This is partially due to what others were saying about the rewards just not being worth it. Maybe if we actually got something worthwhile for winning wars, it wouldn’t be so bad. But why risk losing a war when if you win you get practically nothing, and if you lose you get frustrated players?
I also feel that platinum league is in a weird spot right now. Wars that end in 250 are becoming more and more common. Teams are trying to become more competitive. Of course that means that less serious players get booted. However, platinum league has tons of semi-serious players who may sometimes miss a war, and in my experience when one of these semi-serious players gets booted from their team for missing wars, very often they just quit the game. I have no qualms about booting war missers, but I feel that in platinum leagues this is causing a lot of player turnover. This isn’t helping our recruiting issue.
Now compare that to an atlas war for example, and while atlas wars can be much more stressful, the entire team doesn’t get screwed over if one person doesn’t join in. Not only that, but you get worthwhile rewards for participating in atlas battles, unlike wars where you get a pathetic amount of egg tokens (only if you win). This seems more to me like how a game should be, and less like a job.
Overall I just find wars entirely outdated now. It’s too big of a time commitment for virtually no reward. Unless you are trying to move up in leagues, I really don’t see the point of them anymore.
Do you feel a tie, resulting in both teams receiving something small, made wars more fun?
Why do you feel these are more fun?
So 250 flames has become equal to everyone showing up at a war time. Do you think this shines some light on balance of the game?
I love you. 100% this.
I agree. I think, for me, the questions have come up as why 250 automatically means a team was or was not in full attendance. Why is 5 flames and expectation instead of goal? I think these come back to the balance issue you mentioned.
I am curious about this though. Of course people don’t want to lose, but why is a perfect score the norm? I think this does come back to the balance issue and how we, as a community, have slowly shifted to “good dragons can solo” etc.
Without a doubt. I think shines light as to why I am going down the questions and answers route versus suggestions. Suggestions alone do not see the whole picture these days.
I would be curious to have this conversation with you in another thread or PM.
May I ask if you’re saying that the rewards of war aren’t worth even the consideration?
Let’s look at D1-D2 though. I would disagree that all teams have the geared fliers to take max bases. Even if we assume so, is this a good balance?
This is one aspect, for sure.
Very true. In what way do you feel the league system promotes this?
Mmm. Good point and I agree completely.
I have to agree that this is what makes the game less fun for me.
I hope you post this on a thread meant for suggestions. I am sure a good convo could come from it.
Balance in rosters is an issue, I agree.
It is a time commitment, especially depending on your war strategy and schedule.
May I ask what determines if 250 happens?
If I may ask:
What aspects of the competition do you, someone in G3, feel are not fun?
Are you saying that, for you, wars are just a necessary evil?
What do you dislike most about wars?
I think this combo is very important to note.
May I ask what makes 250 a norm? Is it the showing up, waves, dragons, etc?
Wars have become such an expectation that it relates to churn. I would have to agree.
Agreed. The rest of the team can pick up the slack.
DING. DING. DING.
Thank you for sharing this.
Could you speak more to this?
If I may - do you feel like Atlas now plays a role in eliminating boredom?
Good question. I think it is because, from our side, it means we generally put a lot of hard work into tackling at least one base well above our tier, even if we didn’t get 5 flames out of it. And that’s only fun if it gives us a real shot at winning. Sometimes simply because one of the opposing team doesn’t show up, but it’s the most satisfying if we win because the other team failed to 5-flame some of our bases.
I think this is mostly at end game. In P1, I find there is a much wider skill gap, meaning good bases with good defenders can stop bad flyers with big dragons, up to a certain point. I find quite a few 330+ players in my league tend to be pretty bad flyers (which might explain why they are not in Sapphire), meaning my 244 base (and several other similar-power bases in the team) will at times drop near-expert harbingers and similar followers.
At the flip side the bases also tend to be bad enough that a good obsidian flyer and a decent hau/noc flyer can still get four or five flames despite hitting up.
This is precisely what makes those non-250 wars fun for me, they tend to be a real skill challenge, and I love winning one because multiple 200-something people on the team came together and coordinated dragons and tactics to 4 flame a base with a load of 75 towers.
I do want to see wars disappear because of the time commitment and the imbalance. Having teams move up leagues based on how well the team does in events makes much more sense, i.e rating gained from PvP events. It could be extended to secondary events too.
To be honest, I’m not sure about this. I think that midweek wars have a slightly higher participation (specialy for waves, but again, only for teams that have the main player base in the same timezone).
On weekend is harder to collect a big wave as the player base is quite old in WD and a lot of players have family business on weekend. At least that is what I see from the excuses when a player is missing a hit. (This is something quite unique to WD, the older player base)
But it’s just a gut feeling, not based on hard facts.
For me, its mostly time and effort. I used to be in Sapphire before the league changes, and in those days it was at approximately my level of difficulty. Now it isn’t, and seems to be populated almost exclusively with teams with multiple high level 300-400+ players. I don’t have either the time or the patience (or the skill probably, I’ve never claimed to be a great flyer) to bother. So I stay lower, and even here I’m seeing more and more high level players, and I know many of them feel the same way as I do. But my presence does discourage many other teams from declaring war on us, giving me the escape from wars that I crave.
This is directly related to wars. In addition, I think they impose a play style on people that many (including me) don’t appreciate. The current way to wage wars is by performing wave attacks. That means you need a certain amount of people online at the same time. This ignores the fact that there are time differences and personal schedules. And then you need to stare at a screen waiting to defend. That is simply boring. I’ve also noticed many of the players in my team that state that they love wars don’t actually turn up for waves or seem to defend very much, even though they participate just fine during events.