Spell Scaling Feedback Thread


#242

And to add on a bit more, even if it feels slightly out of balance to begin with it should help make the game more balanced going forward…at least I believe this is more the intent. It’s more of an investment then a overnight fix


#243

I don’t find it confusing… the actual implementation may be wrong in true PG fashion but I see nothing confusing about the intent. What don’t you get? Doesn’t seem like it will negatively effect anyone (if done right) but will help certain underperforming dragons (ie Lokan and Redrian)


#244

Overall, in theory, it should just increase the longevity of dragons (assuming you have the top stone for them). As gear becomes more powerful, or whatever buffs PG adds in the future, this will let the drags grow with those changes so they don’t become irrelevant against stronger bases. So long as it’s done correctly so nothing becomes super OP it should be great. Can start dropping the need for white spells to remain competitive as well. I don’t see a negative unless I’m being dense?


#245

I didn’t say confusion.

It’s poorly communicated and not a lot of official clarification.

It reads like they are giving all spells a flat 30% nerf, and changing spells to work with “modified” values.

From what Gox said it sounds like maybe each spell is unique. So i asked for clarification.

It would be really terrible if on one Hunter the same spell performs differently than on another Hunter.

As I’ve said many times I agree that spells should factor modified values in. Mostly somthat the huge rider buffs actually impact the spells too.

But it now reads like this “we are randomly adjusting all dragons spells and making them work on modified stats and so equal now favors offense instead of defense.”

So. It will be a surprise as to which dragons are changing. Some already operated on modified stats. (Of corse we don’t know if these are being adjusted)

And it sounds like the same spell on two dragons will be scaled differently.

All of that just means massive mistakes are unbalance is likely since we all know they can’t possibly test all dragons, let alone all dragons at all levels.

And the thing that I think is wrong is that max stats on offense now exceed max defense. So defense is a thing of the past for “equals”. Which is mostly impactful for those with maxed stats…

Offensive bias seems like a terrible idea to me. It was already to where too many people can 5 flame my base. I don’t see how anyone thinks that is a good idea.

There is a concept of using modified stats that I agree works, but they have already described how this will work to know they are doing more than that. Instead of max stats staying in calibration they are reducing the spell by a undisclosed amount for each spell on each dragon, with a large number of touch points. And the only say that for those with buffs the amounts should be a net positive. Another words offense is higher than before and defense is unchanged. I give you dragons that require no skill.

If this is well thought out, nobody is saying the things I should be hearing to reassure me. Even Gox is somewhat quiet.


#246

The truth is we are just beginning to test it

As far as I can tell the spells by unique identifier will work the same.

Eg lightning on one dragon is the same as on another.

This is one of the reasons you see new names for essentially the same spells on new dragons - it allows that spell to be tuned more specifically.

I for one would absolutely be against a system where all dragons are simply stronger due to being geared - the base values of existing dragons spells absolutely will have to be tuned individually, however dragons going forward should be able to be designed and balanced easier without outlier spells


#247

There is almost no way this isn’t what’s happening. (I can explain in pm if you want, but if they keep them calibrated at max everyone would be signicantly weakened without, and their words and tone seem to say otherwise)

I have no doubt that towers will come out but seriously 75’s we’re so expensive and I’m not even done with upgrading my towers. And I spend a good deal. I don’t see the cost as being sustainable and even if it was, it doesn’t matter if I can’t get them defendable until it’s another tier degraded from the max dragons… (if I get Aristrat stopped with 1 defender just in time for a new dragon to make that irrelevant)

And really I’m concerned by how many spell
Changes need to be made and will go untested.


#248

Mmm I’ve seen the other side and it’s not the case (aka all dragons werent stronger)

The issue is its much easier to check on the current dragons due to time limits. I for one wanted it only for dragons going forward, but the system doesnt allow this

For example:

Oni (numbers for illustration)

His shout currently did around xMdmg for 1st shout and 3xMdmg for 2nd.

Even though their post makes it seem like they are simply dropping the spell to a lvl where newspell+30%consumable+research= old spell dmg this isn’t true

The spells dmg gets dropped by another modifier - lets call it OniUniqueBalance - OUB mod

So in this case lets call that 0.5 for illustration purposes

So he would (hypothetically) do half of his current dmg with his shout as brand new expert and no gear, and would only reach his current dmg once he has +100% from gear/rider

(Numbers are for illustration)

This is because his shout spell dmg was calibrated or balanced against a max tower lvl base with max gear.

Going forward for new dragons this wouldnt be the case.

If they dont do this you are 100% correct that it would either be a straight out nerf or a straight out buff to all dragons


#249

A per dragon modifier is kind of a band-aid. If it was done right it wouldn’t need such a modifier.

Do you happen to know if they balanced Aristrat’s spells already? It’s a net new damage amp.

Do you know if spells which already operate on modified stats are still being adjusted? Do you know what they will be doing?

The concern I have is knowing how big of an impact it will have on spells. The increase has to either weaken the unbuffed state or add to the buffed state. It can’t mathematically do neither. Maybe it won’t matter because the spells which are impacted aren’t as important to dragon performance as I think. I’ll draw up an example


#250

Aristrat was still balanced without scaling.

In an ideal world the fix wouldn’t need a per dragon mod but the dragons as previously designed were not balanced vs gear.

So anything pre gear will scale easily
Anything post gear (harb and vang and divines of that time) will not scale correctly without a per dragon modifier (their spells would simply be too powerful)


Spell Scaling - good or bad idea?
#251

Yup and we warned PG this when they kept insisting on making spelled based on Base stats…


#252

So are dragons with non maxed dragon rider armor going to be weaker as a result?


#253

Yes, since their unscalable spells were set to function at the upper end of the gear spectrum.


#254

And there is the catch and the screw job by PG. your basic dragon will now be weaker than before. But if you buy stuff from PG, you can make it as strong as it was or maybe stronger…


#255

That is the way I read it earlier and was told I was wrong so which is it ?


#256

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


#257

You were right,unless months are spent testing this will be a total mess. It’s just something more for the whales.


#258

It really isn’t. Take GO for example. This is a spell that was useful starting in Plat but now is kinda useless because it can’t kill towers on a well geared base. Spell scaling is needed and should have been done months ago. Gear in general messed with the game and PG was too short sighted to consider the full impact of having dragons who have stats which are boosted 130%+. Now since they wont nerf gear (as they probably should do) spell scaling is needed.


#259

But for dragons without maxed legendary armor, it means their spells have been functionally nerfed. How many players have maxed legendary rider armor? Mostly whales.


#260

First of all, it doesn’t say that anywhere, it only means that it will need max gear to reach max potential. The alternative is having spells like GO on Lokan that can’t even kill 65’s on a well geared base. Gear has essentially nerfed all spells that are based on base stats. That needs to be accounted for now and that is the whole point of spell scaling.

Now weather or not PG does it properly remains to be seen. But as of right now we dont have enough information to determine that.


#261

tried to real through all of it but couldn´t follow some things.

Yet some questions come to my mind.
That said I am playing this game since almost 3 years considering myself a player who knows quiet a lot about mechanics of the game. I am somewhere mid-level so I can´t really tell if spell scaling if a problem of players below lvl250 or if it is just an end-game problem. Yet again: I don´t see problem the way it is atm.

Which brings me to the next point: If GPF is representing the needs and wishes of the players towards PG, it might help if GPF presents those to us as well? I mean, what else are you “asking for since months” that I am not even aware of? Any clue where I can find that?

The other thing is: let´s assume that ressources (specially coding and implementing new features) are rare. Are we (players and PG) sure that we want to dedicate those rare ressources in Spell scaling? Are there no other topics coming to our mind what would be worth working on?

So once more I want to emphasize many positive things happening here: PG working on improving things, working together with players (GPF) and being open and transparent about it! All that is much appreciated… also I am aware of the fact that it is next to IMPOSSIBLE to please all players. That´s why I am ok if things are done which I am not aware of but a majority of players benefits from it. Question is simply: will the majority of players benefit from it?

And: if all the “rebalancing” is done - who decides what “BALANCED” means afterwards?