Spell Scaling Feedback Thread


#1084

The formula is modified DPS÷2+modifed HP×.095×1.2

Keep in mind that 30% consumables aren’t displayed, and you can’t multiply those numbers by 1.3, you have to add all buffs (research, rider, gear, and 30% boosts) and multiply that to your base HP and base DPS from dragon manager to find your true modified numbers.

Or you can keep it easy and do your tests and math without using 30% boosts lol.


#1086

At some point did Corthanak’s GFB get nerfed? it feels like it barely does any damage anymore even with all sorcerer research and 78% rider HP boosts


#1087

Yes, all butt naked dragons have been nerfed. If you elect to not use 30% consumables then you deserve to have weaker dragons. That’s a stupid argument.

Fair. Pathox is still stronger than what it used to be and towers haven’t changed. Pathox still got a net buff. How is that a nerf? It wasn’t made weaker.

My buffs are trash. I have the research that anyone with a mythic seasonal should have done, and half my gear is level 1-3. I’m not an exceptional example by any means. I find it hard to believe anybody has a weaker Pathox after this.

So the glyph only applies to the health portion of damage? Odd.

I know. I’ve done extensive calculation following all the rules. Thanks for validity checking though.


#1088

Hey Crazy, not a sole cares War Cry was changed when we figured out it was modified HP pre scaling already. Since I am bad at talking to people what to do?


#1089

No, to clarify it’s done like this:
(modified DPS÷2)+(modifed HP×.095)×1.2


#1090

Correction Lee? Edit: is said to be as Lee stated above, no more parentheses needed.


#1091

About 2 weeks after he was released he stopped being able to do any damage to higher level bases with 2 defenders plus. I mean ANY damage. Nuke, Nuke, Nuke, the bar would NOT move. You could have had all legendary gear and all mythic runes and he’d hit a brick wall. Instantly worthless. There was the glitch, that stuck around for a while, but if you didn’t exploit that, he was completely neutered.


#1092

Yeah I know about perch lockdown glitch that was a big problem. It definitely seems though like they did something to kill his attack spell. It doesn’t do anything anymore. I was considering upping his HP stat but there doesn’t seem to be any point now that his spell is totally useless


#1093

Why? If I didn’t need consumables before except for tough bases, why do I deserve a consistently weaker dragon now?

It’s a nerf because it flies like a legendary now, not a mythic. An Aibrean or Fomhar hits as hard as a Pathox, with 1/3 the cost of what it took to get Pathox. Its relatively small “buff” (if at all) compared to other drags made it an average dragon. In fact, my zotz is just as effective, if not better, at attacking up (whether defended or not). If you need to beat a particularly tough base near your tier you should gravitate towards mythics, right now I gravitate towards fomhar and zotz (legendary). That’s how it’s a nerf.

Edit: for point of comparison in PG logic - they significantly reduce Pathox’s power after spell scaling because he could 2-shot some towers with Crippling Chill (without defenders repairing). Then they release the next mythic that could 1-shot an entire island repeatedly WITH defenders. So yeah, as mythics go, it’s been reduced to just another legendary hunter like his predecessors.


#1094

Name calling? I’ve seen no real math from you.

It’s not a nerf for everyone. You clearly don’t understand the change.

Buffs are still stacked on top of rather than apply to base numbers, so yes If your buffs are sufficient you will break even at some point.

The fact is that without buffs other dragons break even at 30% or less, this one does not.

If you say so. Aside from using base hp, that’s exactly how they work(ed)


#1095

I think the point is that the nerf isn’t supposed to exceed 30%, and it does.

It’s nerfed enough that the break even point is higher, and a lot of people got a weaker dragon.

Because not everyone has the same buffs, and many do have weaker Pathox’s. Pathox did not get a net buff. Pathox be either a net buff or a net nerf depending on buffs applied on top of it.

It’s easy to trivialize people who aren’t maxed as unimportant, but they are important. The clear issue here is the hp stats at the end tier. So anyone with a level 60 pathox isn’t going to have issues.

I bet you have a vanguard pathox too. And your level 1-3 gear is all legendary or elite. (Or at the very least you are max obsidian)

I generally agree that it’s not hard to build up some decent buffs, but the exact break even point hasn’t yet been determined and it’s definitely higher than 30%, and you cannot just slap on that buff to make up for it.

This particular spell is a tad more complicated than others. And this particular dragon gets a huge hp boost in its last tier.

Have you shared any of these extensive calculations? Do your expected numbers match the actual numbers exactly?


#1096

If Fomhar is completely untouched by this update. And Pathox got STRONGER. How is your claim anything but rhetoric? Lul Aibrean.

:rofl:

Fomhar isn’t different after the update. At all. Lul Zotz.

Level 22 Pathox with Mythic Glyph

Base Health: 6,921,530

Base DPS: 767,016

110.4% more health from 46.4% gear, 13% rider, 21% research, 0% runes, and 30% consumable means modified health = 14,537,982.

124% more dps from 56% gear, 13% rider, 20% research, 5% runes and 30% consumable means modified dps = 1,718,116.

Pre scaling calculated damage = 1.2(6,921,530*0.14 + 767,016/2) = 1,623,026.

Post scaling calculated damage = 1.2(14,537,982*.095 + 1,718,116/2) = 2,688,200.

Observed damage = 2,534,568.

Upon noticing the error, I calculated damage doing 1.2(14,537,982*.095) + 1,718,116/2 = 2,516,412 which is far more accurate relative to my observed damage. It’s within 1% error, so Lee is probably right here. This should also debunk any thoughts you have about the glyph changing the spell from 9.5% to 29.5% but you’re welcome to keep believing it does.

Edit: Forgot about 5% attack from runes.

Is this sufficient for you? When I take the time to run my own calculations and get fairly reliable results, it’s a bit annoying when everyone screams their dragon is nerfed because someone else said it was nerfed. How is a ~60% damage increase a nerf?

Let’s beat a dead horse again! Research and the consumable make up for it! Automatically doing more damage after those 2 things! Orange research is not hard!

Hi, unmaxed level 177 here. How you doing?

Garnet is having no issues, nor is Emerald or or Obsidian from what I’ve heard. I could survey more people but it’s pointless because math doesn’t lie.

You’re right about the gear. Not the rest. E2P player in Garnet but I got Pathox when I was still in Sapphire tier. We exist!

Sorry if I sound like a brat, but I’m not maxed or endgame. Far from it. Feel free to look me up in game if you don’t trust. My gear isn’t exceptional, it’s not even 60/50. My research is average/expected. My Pathox is ~60% stronger than it was before. All my calcs have been laid out here. If this still doesn’t convince you or others that their dragon is fine, then I don’t know what will.


#1097

Yes, the ghost blast spell must glitch with no damage when defender use hammer. normally the spell also did nothing to towers when cast it with no defenders like following topic shows.
It is an apparent bug but PG didn’t take care it at all.

[Bug] Corthanak’s ghostfire blast(doesn’t do damage)


#1098

Isn’t this the bug where when you cast a spell too fast, it does normal attack damage to towers instead of the spell damage or effects… ?


#1099

You might want to check your facts here. It’s damage amp spell was scaled down and in their recent response they essentially buffed it to make up for the fact that the spell was apparently already scaled and didn’t need to be nerfed.

You do realize that not everyone gets the same results? My math still doesn’t work out for damage, but I suspect the difference maker here is the glyph.

This isn’t necessarily the case. I suspect those without the mythic glyph are not so well off. If it’s a 20% increase on top of the final number, and the nerf was greater than 30%, and the 20% compounds on top of the new nerfed rate,

Great for you that it worked out but I’ve seen damage numbers that were less. It’s pretty obvious when someone could double shot stuff before and cannot after. (Mine also works fine)

Until I can get my numbers worked out I can’t say for sure what the break even is with and without the glyph. I don’t think everyone is just beating a dead horse here, although I’m sure some may be. You are just fortunate not to be one of those impacted. (Decent chance the majority of people aren’t)

Math like the percentage of hp which takes a drastic uptick at the end but not elsewhere which is not matched by other dragons or towers hp?

You had made several of these statements about math before you even had it worked out. And honestly it sounded like you were dropping the word math without having done any.

That’s probably enough to make up for the hp curve. You may be surprised by how many people are at legendary level 1 or almost a complete set of legendary. Not to mention folks who play without atlas…

You sound like you think because it worked out for you that everyone else must be wrong. So the natural conclusion is that you have factors (variables) in play that not everyone does. As it happens you have a maxed mythic glyph and level 3 elite and/or legendary gear.

I generally agree it’s not hard to achieve a neutral state for all dragons even at orange tier, I do however think pathox is special, or else they never would have needed to nerf it beyond the 30% nerf it originally had.


#1100

It appears he did not forget brackets. The number is a lot closer for mine when I don’t apply 20% to the attack damage.

I’m getting ~18.62m from the formula and actual number is ~18.76m with less than 1% error. (About 3/4ths of a percent off when using the full numbers)


#1101

I’d say that’s as close as you’re gonna get. I suspect the difference is because of the 9.5% being a rounded number. I take it you’re fairly satisfied with your numbers then?

I figured since the buff was really just undoing the nerf, it’s considered unchanged.

Even without the glyph bonus I’m doing more damage than before WITH the glyph bonus.

I don’t like this either. I’m frankly kind of livid that my Mythic dragon isn’t actually Mythic unless I’m endgame. Kind of dumb. I’d be very much in favor of overhauling most divines/mythics level progression so things actually feel stronger when they’re supposed to.

Thought I had posted it somewhere earlier. Maybe not. But I had calced it all out, whether I shared it or not.

Sure. It was certainly causing problems at endgame. I’m not denying that. It probably still is. I still wouldn’t say it’s a nerf. I’d call it balancing. And it’s a rather garbage job of it. Ultimately, the dragon (and probably others) need to be looked at and have stats adjusted so that the dragon performs similarly at relative levels across the board.


#1102

Thanks I’ll edit.

47% 47% 47%, this is the with or without glyph as it was applied before and after the scale. Find my post above with the equation if you’d like.

If someone that got a season mythic can’t scrounge 17% more buff above someone that has any of the spells in the main group then something is wrong.

Not everyone will get the same damage no, but everyone has the same damage calc. This is what he’s showing, that with 47% boost or more to HP Pathox CC does equal or more damage.

Your posts were quite well and put together at start, but you’ve gotten away from that and just started ranting like the ones you started replying to. Gather yourself a little.


#1105

I can probably get closer. But I agree it’s likely rounded (possibly compounded) somewhere. I tried rounding all resultants up which were non-integers and it barely made a dent. I thought the error was more than 1% but it turned out to just be 140k looked like more than it was.

Yeah I found it odd how pg worded it. And the new number was not the old number. I would have expected them to say they rolled it back or undid it, but I believe the new number and the old number to be different. Maybe higher. It’s flagged for investigation in my head. In any event I suspect it will fix anyone who was having issues. (Close enough)

Right but that was my point, people without I believe are more impacted. Due to it being compounded in impact. Now that I think the formula is close enough I’ll determine the break even with and without. But need to do that tomorrow. The glyph should essentially erase some of the nerf, how substantial that is I haven’t worked out yet.

Yeah I agree, although I think tower adjustments and dragon stat adjustments would be needed across the board to do it right. Much more major than what the spell scaling touched. If you have graphed out the spell scaling you would see it’s like they stitched 5 or 6 curves together and then made a few hand edits on top of that.

Believe it or not the hp curve is actually far short of the exponential curve that is a best fit, but if this stuff all worked on strict formulas the amount of post release balancing needed would be far less. (Which likely requires they fix tower issues)

Well it’s both a buff and a nerf, but do the majority of it’s owners fall into buff territory?

So far pathox is still a non issue for my base. Far bigger issues with itzani and surt. I expect Oni has become a problem again, but haven’t seen too many since the changes. My Oni feels a lot stronger, but no numbers to back it up.

A mythic that was widely claimed deserves more time than they appear to have put into it as part of this change. I know so many people who busted their butt to get it, and yeah they are all capable enough to end up with net positive damage if they put the same effort into gear as they did into getting the dragon.


#1106

Well here’s my numbers on Lvl 21 Garnet Pathox. I guess I see where the problem is coming from if scaled at 14% and the need for the Nerf. If this is the case in garnet I can only imagine how terrible this would have been in Vanguard :man_shrugging:

Edit - Forgot post scaling was at 11% and not 14%.

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