The Grand Nails in Atlas’s Coffin: An Appeal for Change

I want to start by saying that in no way is what you are about to read a recently typed report; I started typing this up in early-February and have since abandoned it, but I would like to actually get to the point of publishing it as it has some crucial points I’d like to be raised. I have proofread it, with very few revisions made to the text. Without further ado:

I have a few propositions that may help broaden the horizon of Atlas! If the “help” in these propositions is illusory, I anticipate that this will at least serve to shed some light on the few blemished components of Atlas.

At root, Atlas is an oppressive beast in its own virtual ecosystem, and manifold players have taken note of it in similar fashions. Atlas serves its operator as both a boon and a trifle. I am going to attempt to underscore the flawed attributes of Atlas; the real blemishes, not trivialities beyond developer control such as the abolition of mega-alliances, capitalizing on “alert bots”, or “stagnancy” (as a simple product of inaction).

Krelos and his encumbrance placed upon players without Krelos in the active environment

Krelos very patently and effectively skews Atlas-driven competition to a fault. He facilitates a much more fruitless procedure in which a player lacking his presence in their roster may become susceptible to swift, indefensible hits from players on a broader scale. These are the players who have Krelos and are prepared to inflict mayhem by whichever means they deem necessary. This is a crucially unfair and imbalanced technique that leaves vulnerable fledglings and rising underdogs (n-2 and below) at the crux of the procedure.

In solution, I would like to advance Krelos’s addition to the dragon leveling shard system. The only other prospect that I can think of is total removal of Krelos from the game, and though I would personally be okay with that, it would be reasonable to forecast a consensual uprising of some form if that were to happen, so making Krelos accessible universally would alleviate much of the communal strife between the class of players without Krelos and the class with him.

If the speedy aspect of Atlas is going to be exercised and foregrounded in such a thorough manner, I feel that no room should be left for vapid, sluggish tactics. It should be an immediate provision if made an immediate prerequisite for competition. In a world full of tortoises, Krelos is the hare, though unlike the lesson taught in Aesop’s lofty fable, speed is what bestows the treasure. Despite Aesop’s teaching that you do not have to be meteoric where you can be glacial and spare your time, Atlas clashes with it to enforce that you cannot be glacial where in order to win, you must be meteoric, and the theory plays out.

The induction of festive shards was an ingenious plan, and I am certain that there would be a wave of thrill if it were to be applied to the most useful, pertinent dragon ever established into the world of War Dragons. The status quo is phenomenally unfair and lacks synergy. With this in effect, there would be unlimited access to Krelos, and there would be no issue between those with him and those without him.

The conversion of waiting time to prize value in Atlas Rider Missions

The correlation between the interval of time required to wait and the prize reaped upon completion does not rectify the result, and I am making what I hope is a clarion call to revisit it, or to flag it for future consideration.

A period of 12 hours for products of 3 crafting scrolls (exponentially increasing), 75 egg tokens (increasing, not exponentially), 3 hours worth of expedites (exponentially increasing), and 150K in golden treasures (increasing, not exponentially) seems negligible, and it is. Due to this, there is little to no alacrity in the waiting process, so many players (myself included) determine its best to forgo this aspect entirely, despite what it entails.

I am going to expound on this issue at length. Click to expand if you wish to read the rest of my proposition on this particular matter. It is mostly in the form of analysis.

Theoretically, if a player were to fulfill two Atlas Rider Missions per 24-hour interval with no incorporation of diamonds to expedite the process, said player could only procedurally reap any of the following quantities:

  • Crafting Scrolls - 6, 12, 18, 24, 30

Between Training Camp events, this equates to the rough results of 72, 144, 216, 288, and 360. Then, once you factor in the additional, approximate 12-hour interval, you add half of the doubled 24-hour values to each of the final values (to account for the prolonged 12 or so hours in each event; they don’t typically last a precise three days), so the resultant integers would then become 75, 150, 225, 300, and 375 at the extremum. These quantities are not as significant as they purport to be! It requires prolifically higher quantities to actually take root in the crafting process. Fortunately, there are bountiful scrolls in Atlas Event prizes, so even to the exclusion of these negligible values from Rider Missions, things seem to check out.

  • Egg Tokens - 150, 300, 450, 600, 750

Between Breeding Events, the summations of each value would total up to 3150, 6300, 9450, 12600, and 15750 at peak value. Keep note that this is all assuming the prospect that the player maintained a dynamic, unflagging streak of 12-hour missions for the total of 21 24-hour timeframes—alias the time between Breeding Events—so these extrapolations are double what the Rider Missions page presents as available. The next step in the equation is obviously an utter replica of what was done with the previous item: you have to factor in the additional 12-hour period that prolongs the event to be roughly 3.5 days instead of 3. The results should translate to 3225, 6450, 9675, 12900, and 16125 respectively. Although mere fractions of dragons as you ascend to higher tiers, these values are promising to some degree, so there is not much to expostulate with, especially when you consider everything in conjunction with tokens garnered from various other sources.

  • Speed-Ups - 24 15mins (6hrs), 24 30mins (12hrs), 18 1hrs (18hrs), 8 3hrs (24hrs/1d), 10 3hrs (30hrs/1.25d)

Between Fortification Events, these values would total up to 504 15mins (126hrs/5.25d), 504 30mins (252hrs/10.5d), 378 1hrs (378hrs/15.75d), 168 3hrs (504hrs/21d), and 210 3hrs (630hrs/26.25d) at the extrema. Nothing changes here; you still have to factor in the prolonged 12-hour interval at the end of the event that makes odd the sum of the even proportions. You should land on the finishing values of 516 15mins (129hrs/5.375d), 516 30mins (258hrs/10.75d), 387 1hrs (387hrs/16.125d), 172 3hrs (516hrs/21.5d), and 215 3hrs (645hrs/26.875d) as the final corresponding values. These are negligent values in the upper echelons of the War Dragons hierarchy simply due to the fact that they merely account for a single tower. You get more meritorious deals through external sources such as Trading Posts, main-game season branches, and Atlas events, so these timer missions are a candid waste of time and resources. A 12-hour wait for a gross minimum of 5.375 days and a significantly improved (but still gross; alternative definition used here) maximum of 26.875 days is only worthwhile if you play as a fledgling who hasn’t quite gotten its feet wet.

  • Gold - 300000, 450000, 600000, 750000

Gold is used to perform so many actions that I feel the extra effort toward arithmetic equations would be unnecessary, but to sketch it all out, you would ideally multiply each value individually by 3 (representative of the approximate three days per Atlas Event). Then you would factor in the additional 12 hours; since the above values are multiplied to correspond with two successive 12-hour missions (to fit squarely into a 24-hour period), those values divided will leave you with your 12-hour value, which will be added to the equation with the intention of esteeming it as the final integral piece of the puzzle. You now have your final answer. Of course, determination of how the beneficence of this result differs from the total possible quantity you could accumulate via the invader base would depend on how your team’s castle system is established. However, for most, the 12-hour wait is not worth it.

Of these variables, the Egg Tokens seem to be the most promising, if not the sole promising offer of these four. A 12-hour wait does not rectify most of these values, especially when it prohibits the use of a rider by placing it on hiatus until the mission is completed. That alone is a prevalent motive for a player’s choice to forgo missions. The prizes reaped are unjustified by the time required to obtain them. A revamp would crystallize its potential.

Power creep; it’s not improving, it’s exacerbating.

As the avalanche of content continues to compile, the stretch from early-game to late-game expands. This is unsound in any respect, and has blemishes concerning both main-game and Atlas, but since this thread is predominantly about Atlas, all quandaries will boil down to Atlas. Atlas issues are more pressing anyway.

I touched briefly on this topic when I detailed what the underlying issue is with Krelos gamboling about the map. Here, I will expound on it as the final iniquity—the final “grand nail in Atlas’s Coffin”.

Suppose you are a level 84 player entering Atlas for the first time with your gold dragons at hand ready to conquer lands and make a name for yourself that would strike fear into the minds of other players. (That’s a pretty lofty task for a level 84 player, but this is hypothetical.) That’s one huge step for level 84, one humongous leap for level-84 kind. You find a castle you want to conquer, and you solicit assistance from any teammate advanced enough to tackle the quarry; nobody answers, so you go in solo, and the invasion takes root.

A couple of minutes later, after a nigh-on failed conquest attempt, you’re inundated with a flustering succession of messages such as—“You were attacked near FieryFate by DeadlyDuchess of GiveItYourBestShot. Your Primarch earned 3.17K glory. Go to your battle reports to view the details.”—and you click through these inattentively, until you come upon a message that says, “Your Primarch has been freed, please summon a new one”. You pull the same charade on a less forgiving target, and manage to prevail before being wiped, but only because you had managed to cajole someone into assisting you this time. You didn’t even make it past 1%, but you accept your earnings; this experience is really nothing to write home about. And it doesn’t get any better.

You are now a level 435 player bordering on Abyssal dragons. You have advanced, but the feeling is nonexistent. As far as competition is concerned, you’re still an underdog at the clutches of the higher-ups. Individual sniping attempts have been fruitful, but there remains something gnawing at you that makes the overall experience feel incomplete. To start with, you actually have to worry about who you hit, versus endgamers who have the leeway to be frivolous and jaunt around Atlas without constraint, which renders you a deadweight in combative scenarios involving castle defenses. This still doesn’t get better. The power creep keeps creeping upward, and the margin keeps widening. You have barely made it anywhere.

Reeling it back in; the primary pitch here isn’t solely that the game is seeing rapid advancement and underdogs are buried further down to become ultra-underdogs. That qualifies as an intended pitch, but the primary pitch is that just as a monumental amount of time is required in order to feel established in main-game, that same monumentality pervades Atlas, and once you factor in all of the primarch variations and gear (among other things), it imposes a tax on the neophyte experience and the midgame experience.

These are just a few of the attributes that contribute to the hardships connected to Atlas. I hope that this post serves its purpose. I am certain that I did not cover everything. Atlas, like manifold things, is a conceptually beneficial construct with few minor structural flaws. I feel that if these get polished, Atlas will be more idyllic.


For those who dont wanna read,
tldr :
Speed meta is a problem in atlas
Krelos is a problem in atlas for smaller players.

This has been a long existing problem, how come you only started noting it early Feb mate?


I want krelos too.hahaha.

Is that all that was said?

Appreciate the cliffs

Almost krelos speed


Think there was also a complaint that rider missions took too much effort. Doesn’t make much sense to me, for less than a minutes effort each day you can get 1800 egg tokens.

Suspect the OP would find atlas more rewarding if he actually participated in it.


Playing atlas is like watching paint dry ….
It requires almost no tactical skill only one sided politics and unless your in the top 5% you will not need any tactics.

Sorry it’s a broken piece of crap that serves only 5 % of the player base and jalen is correct nor did they just complain about the same old topics…. Lmao

Im gunna say this nicely try actually reading what jalen posted again very slowly and stop and try your best to think along the way because sometimes what is said is not said to make a point….
Yes sometimes things are said so you can see and come to the point on your own……

Not all information is spoon fed to you and sometimes reading requires you actually think about what was written and beyond that to WHY……
Not everything is linear.
You might start with the title itself :+1:

Thank you jalen your personal perspective it means more to me and holds more value than the basic complaints……

Don’t let narrow perspectives shut you down jalen not everyone expects instant gratification thank you for your post and your time.


Read it again and you might see why the participation available to them is not adequate…:man_shrugging:
It’s not a matter of them needing to participate it’s a matter of not being able to effectively across all levels of play below the top 5%

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No, it wasn’t. That’s why I don’t always see the appeal in TL;DR messages. (I’m not shaming Squig for making one. I’m speaking generally.)

I also appreciate this post.


And yes, you’re right about this.


For those not willing to stop and read the below monster post just skip to the bottom! :fire:

The game begins its clean simple and fun.

At this stage it’s slightly more than a coin pusher with barely enough dragons to fill your current roster.

The game provides quick tactical play by utilizing its multi player real time moment of engagement and the skill requirement it produces to make a attack.

At this point you can’t possibly solo a run with hunter they are used to take out problem towers and reduce the efficiency of the islands that they manage to fly over but they do not clean runs solo.

They are quick strike assassins and each class had a use and defined role to play.
At this point a single attack required teamwork and the multiplayer interface players use.

This simple yet strikingly effective structure is what produced a outcome determined by skill not cheap escalating content!

Escalating content increases equivalent exchange a dynamic of engagement and the more you escalate that content the less skill and team work it requires to successfully complete a attack.

Equivalent exchange degrades the moment of engagement because it’s not hard to determine who’s going to win when it’s based purely on numbers.

For example a level 100 vs level 200 is not complicated to see who will win each exchange
The numbers are totaled and the looses are calculated and a winner is determined and this is how many tactical games determine the outcome of any single attack .

At this early point the game we were playing did not use equivalent exchange because it had not been escalated enough to allow for much of it to be forced upon the moment of engagement thereby degrading the skill and teamwork required.

We had skill as what determined the outcome of attack!
By the way this is truly what made this game popular to begin with!
Now it’s almost completely determined by escalating content and that’s basically equivalent exchange.

At this stage of the meta it was utilizing a long term defensive objective of growth to drive engagement and produce conflict and we were given war as a way to attack and climb ranks.
And the blood flowed like a river…… it was beautiful and brutal and produced real strategy and tactical play.
For a brief moment rank as a objective supported engagement and the game grew….

Teams were placed on simple tiered ordinal ranking system that would support a small community of players and diamond was given a set number of teams and content was scaled to slow the growth at the top to allow a player base to develop.
And of course the player base exploded with growth with skill driving the moment of engagement.
Real time multiplayer attacking and defense is what made this great and the moment of engagement being determined by skill!

As the game grew engagement fell and rank failed to drive conflict once what is now diamond was full……
We needed something to produce engagement and the event cycle was born to provide conflict and help produce progression to provide the top with competitive play.

The short term cyclical events with short term objectives bought us some time by providing some engagement and this is when we see pg add the very first catch up mechanics and this allowed the event cycle to support engagement for quite some time.
This also sped the up the movement of the meta and the events began to degrade rapidly and this is when we began seeing events become super repetitive or even detrimental.

We began demanding new events expensive events that were hard to launch does anyone remember when pg didn’t host their own events? I do ……lol

So to keep events viable pg dumped that method of launching events and invested into in house hosting of events which made them easier and cheaper to deploy and some events were scraped and new events were added.
This kept events viable and the resource loop they produce going it’s this loop that was being used to drive engagement and the revenue engagement produces.

As the meta keeps progressing the loop begins to produce less and less revenue……
and less and less engagement as they go hand and hand.

We can assume that events are not cheap to produce or we would see more of them and we don’t.

So this continued for some time and this is when we see the great contest appear in the meta which is where the avatar I use here comes from.
The great contest was a month long event that failed to produce revenue and while it was setup to be ran seasonally it was only ran once and dread was the winner day one and we still see the statue on our event island today.
The great contest was not fun it was not profitable and was never ran again.
It’s almost exactly like the coming so called expansion that will be re set seasonally and just like the great contest it will fail to produce engagement because it’s re set it might as well be the great contest but will probably be even worse!

Move forward a little in the meta and we see pg attempt to utilize cosmetic content and they begin to rapidly expand currencies and content from gear to riders to the unnecessarily complicated prime setup we utilize today .
They tried cosmetic content and all kinds of gimmicks to drive engagement.
which only lead to rapid elimination and a quick burst of revenue and further degradation of the event cycle from meta growth.

This appears to have had a big impact on Pgs data at this point and this is when top players and our factions began demanding a map me included. Lol

I was a officer sometimes leader f2p in sapphire and had a few alts I was running and my leader for my main at the time was one of the faction members and we both pushed hard for a map and we wanted something besides another crappy event that was sure to be tossed In the dumpster fire where all events end up…. Lol

We yelled for something with a long term objective something that didn’t produce escalation and something that had a offensive objective….
And atlas was born twisted and backwards because it had to show a profit……

We tried desperately to get pg to realize castles and the defense objective they were trying to utilize was not viable and was just as pointless as growth and rank being the only objective.

This is when all escalation should have stopped and the map should have been offensive in nature and had a offensive objective to provide endless engagement….

Ahhh sadly it would have taken time to produce revenue and pg needed to show investors a profit so the built the mechanics around a defense objective that we have today……

And to drive revenue pg began using class imbalance and escalating our content to drive revenue in a speed is king meta and this has steadily eroded player retention and killed all viability in leagues below platinum where we find massive sandbagging and unbalanced engagement.

This produces controlled elimination and allows pg to groom whales and cater directly to spenders while still providing the illusion of a objective and the illusion of competitive play at lower levels……
Ahhhh but it fails completely to support mid game and brutally churns and burns mid game as it approaches near end game.
That keeps the top at the top so it’s easy to find and placate whales and big spenders!

Sadly this is the result of pay to compete mechanics being implemented and that at about covers how pg has nailed this coffin so far….

This post was made intentionally long and detailed for those not capable of forcing themselves to read i summarized the key points below.

:fire:SUMMARY :fire:

Ordinal rank or what’s called league structure has long failed to drive engagement!

The defense objective of pointless continuous growth has failed to drive engagement!

The asinine defense objective of the long term defense of castles has failed to drive engagement!

They childish use of defensively escalating content long term has failed to supply engagement!

None of these defense objectives have provided viable long term engagement or balanced engagement …….nor will they ever support growth….

We are currently using defense as the only objective and that doesn’t support conflict and engagement.

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DON’T YOU DARE. Krelos still is too good for hitting down and there needs to be a point in which people aren’t concerned with being unable to stop or stall a Krelos on their bases.

Addition mine: I would support making a lower tier speedy boi available to newer players that missed him on the SunScorch season so that they’re not alienated from landing guard hits in raids/conquers but also allows them to compete with others in speed based PvEs sections of PvPs in main game.

Yes, we can agree it sucks to be a noob in atlas. That’s what low APR pirate teams are for. That’s what active teammates that clean up taunters are for. That’s why people glory swap or arrange guard swaps for their teams.

Oh? So we have ways to deal with this issue - can we write it off as a non-issue then? No. All of the above reasons are either exploits (bad for competitiveness) or completely dependent on having someone to carry you which is bad for developing player self-sufficiency. OP’s point stays

I don’t really understand the 2nd point where it goes into atlas rider missions - I feel that is a fairly scaled, accessible source extra goodies for active or even low-active players.


I would say there is definitely many many issues with atlas, not just the ones stated. I have mentioned before and would get behind a permanent nerf to Krelos above any other solutions to him. He is nice to have, but for atlas just adds to an already wide player gap.

Atlas in itself is flawed. Glory. Castles. Prim levels extending with no event for them now. Swapping. Bla bla bla. There is 0 team incentive, and with the expansion, we’ll have what 3 days of conflict? Than back to normal state. The only goal is to eliminate teams. Most of us choose not to. Imagine if one mega alliance just wanted to disband one team at a time, how fun that would be :eyes:. This exotic gear isn’t enough for me personally to grind useless glory. What are we fighting for? There isn’t really enough teams to hold the current castle’s competitively so let’s add more? Maybe s1 and up can finally get off their t2 and t3 castles they have no business owning, so good for newer teams. The upside, if PG is brave, would be limit access to new islands of castles based on APR and get rid of the current map altogether. Update the silly league structures maybe. And reset them every season. Give us some pve inside of atlas, get rid of guards and team glory, give us atlas wars. All of atlas needs an overhaul. Till then, I’m just chilling :beers:.


Just messing with ya bro :facepunch:

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Create a rouge prim, that can complete 1 attack on a higher level prim (defense stat) before it can be attacked itself. This way you at least could not be freed before you complete 1 attack. Make it not able to block castles.

So many valid points are made throughout this post. The key takeaways for me: if the game doesn’t have some formulation of balance then it becomes dreadful and overly frustrating to anyone who isn’t amongst the top 5%.
The top dogs are steam rolling everyone, regardless of atlas ranking. Having every team in the same pen playing together on a more-or-less equal playing field is ridiculous.
There is zero incentive in following a teammate on an atlas run (gaining a small amount of glory from an assist would be nice or gaining a small amount of gold from following a beast attack).
Troop building is excruciating for non elite holders. Perhaps troops could be offered as a rider mission?
The bottom line is that, without balance, dedicated players have no incentive because there is currently nearly zero prospect of gaining ground. All the time, money, and strategizing makes no difference the way things are currently set up.
Why i waste my time writing this though since the big dogs write the checks for PG….they won’t listen to anyone else