The Great Gold Prim Tax

In this post I’ll argue that gold tier prims are nothing more than a tax taking valuable resources away from players and giving players no additional capability to enjoy the game.

Essentially gold tier prims are a “tax” for playing the game. I honestly hope Gold 1 tier is the last tier and that plans to release Gold 2 tier are scrapped forever.

By the numbers Gold

Each gold tier prim costs 565 million gold. That’s 2.26 billion gold.

Players could instead use this gold to build 2.26 million troops!!

That is a huge number of troops for every player. Imagine all the extra conflict that would take place in atlas if we all had 2.26 million troops to attack with.

By the numbers Timers

G1 prims cost 556 days in timers each. 2,224 days for all 4 prims.

Players could instead upgrade their base. Max towers take 57 days in timers. Most players have the basic research and the default defence rider rider for 37% building discount. Each tower therefore takes 36 days in timers.

That is 62x tower level upgrades at max level a player is sacrificing for gold tier prims.

It’s almost 16mm points in a single fort event or its enough to go from 11mm points to 16mm points in 3 different fort events.

So what new features do we get for our gold prims?

Strangely zippo. Nothing.

  • They don’t farm more gold than S2 prims
  • They don’t have better revives than S2 prims
  • They don’t kill more troops than S2
  • They don’t have new abilities or featuess
  • They don’t even use S2 stored glory even though PG said this was a main reason for making G1 prims because everyone had too much glory.

They offer absolutely nothing!!

So how about fighting surely thats better?

Well no. Not really. Lets take a look at a few scenarios.

S2 max destroyer vs S2 max destroyer both with 25% buff.

If attacker wins 5 flame he will lose 7,500 troops, he will kill 15,000 troops. He will earn max glory 11,250 while defender gets 5,625 glory.

If we look at 4 flames then attacker will lose 10,000 troops for max glory. Defender will still lose 15,000 troops for 7,500 glory.

And so on.

So what happens Max Gold 2 destroyer vs Max Gold 2 destroyer?

absolutely identical results

There is no difference. Nada. All gold tier prims are is a tax to strip valuable resources off players.

I hope PG scrap any plans to bring out G2 prims.

And honestly G1 should be buffed to give players some benefit for the money and timers spent.

By this I mean they should have the following

All Gold prims should have 3% better revives.

Gold 1 siegers should be able to kill 20,000 troops

Gold 1 trappers should be able to defend kill 20,000 troops.

Gold 1 destroyers should farm 10% more gold

Gold 1 taunters should fly 25% faster.

Something like that to make our valuable timers and gold actually worth something.

Otherwise all G1 prims are is a great big fat dirty tax imposed on all players for zero change to player outcomes.

Note : even if you level up faster than your rivals all it means is you will get less glory- for slightly more efficient troops loss but this is only a temporary thing since everyone will max out eventually.

Sadly we all gotta pay the tax and I find it super frustrating :frowning: :frowning: :frowning:

At least with tax in real life governments will build some roads this tax is just flushed down the toilet.
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-They don’t kill more than 15,000 troops
-They don’t use S2 accumulated glory
-They don’t have new abilities or features.

So how about fighting surely thats better?

Well no. Not really. Lets take a look at a few scenarios.

S2 max destroyer vs S2 max destroyer both with 25% buff.

If attacker wins 5 flame he will lose 7,500 troops, he will kill 15,000 troops. He will earn max glory 11,250 while defender gets 5,625 glory.

If we look at 4 flames then attacker will lose 10,000 troops for max glory. Defender will still lose 15,000 troops for 7,500 glory.

And so on.

So what happens Max Gold 2 destroyer vs Max Gold 2 destroyer?

absolutely identical results

There is no difference. Nada. All gold tier prims are is a tax to strip valuable resources off players.

I hope PG scrap any plans to bring out G2 prims.

And honestly G1 should be buffed to give players some benefit for the money and timers spent.

By this I mean they should have the following

All Gold prims should have 3% better revives.

Gold 1 siegers should be able to kill 20,000 troops

Gold 1 trappers should be able to defend kill 20,000 troops.

Gold 1 destroyers should farm 10% more gold

Gold 1 taunters should fly 25% faster.

Something like that to make our valuable timers and gold actually worth the use.

16 Likes

You forgot the gold prime restriction …….

5 Likes

LOL, and still castleless players still can’t have them out.
Pirates have already found the work around for that and just take a castle for a period of time then abandon. While in possession they do their leveling of their gold primarchs.
When they are truly castleless they use their max s2 primarchs and snipe anything including gold trappers on purpose. Thus taxing these teams/players further to have to spend more gold reviving troops, and so on.
Right now as I peruse the map, so many player still don’t have gold level primarchs of any kind. These are players in Sapphire and Plat leagues!!
I agree that Gold level primarchs should never had been released, but they are here and soon enough, those that have them, will have maxed Gold 1 primarchs just sitting there collecting dust on their buried bases waiting and waiting and waiting to be attacked

Very true gold tier prims also force pirates to hold a castle. Kinda a super pointless change :frowning:

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We don’t hold them :rofl:
We take them and sack them and utilize them until we have no need for them!
Then we toss them aside and sack another one later and when we have our primes that will eventually stop and then it will only be done by privateers and it will make the meat shielding we see in use today look like child’s play……
Can we say stagnation real slowly :rofl: ……….

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Actually they do. When you level them up they fly faster

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Oh that’s good to know I take that comment back then :slight_smile: Ty for letting me know

Original post now corrected.

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I do think you bring up some good points.
Gold prims are very rss intensive. They provide marginal buffs.
I believe this is partly because people didn’t want OP prims that are easy to get. So they made underwhelming prims that are hard to get.
The one benefit they have provided is goals for players to kill towards but that’s about it

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:point_up_2::point_up_2::point_up_2::point_up_2::point_up_2:

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I’m ok with the concept but I do think for all the timers and gold that players should get something.

Otherwise PG might as well of deducted 2200 days of timers and 2.2 billion gold from everyones accounts and left it at S2.

There is no difference in max level combat outcomes when comparing S2 to G1 destroyers.

Sure tiny differences with other prim combos but honestly its like splitting hairs.

Do you have RSS consumption data on the other tier prims too?

I’d like to see some more comparison because with only data on Gold Prims, of course every looks really really high.

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So, do you prefer having a “must have” upgrade than a “good to have” one?

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I see Prims like a kind of atlas dragons: take food (gold) and xp (glory). What I don’t like, as @MrMonopoly1 said somewhere else, is that I have to give timers too…

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I would prefer a must have over a nice to have.

Gold tier prims probably float between both. If you are 4-5 levels behind your competitors then its a nice to have.

If you are 10+ behind its a must have if you want your troop useage efficiency to remain fully utilized.

I just don’t like paying so much so that my max Gold prim will be exactly the same as my max Silver 2 prim in terms of combat results.

If PG made money from this all good. But the reality is players don’t benefit from new prim tiers. PG don’t benefit from new prim tiers.

Its over 2 billion gold and 2200 days in timers we all gotta pay for no benefit to players or PG just seems like a total waste.

All it does is mean we all build less troops ( 2.2 million less and engage in less atlas conflict )

Gold is never really the true issue with troop building. Hats are.

Same as timers, they can be sped with diamonds.

So those two numbers in your calculations are off. However, there is a troop loss still as you could replace hats / bullhorns with using diamonds instead. So a better calculation would be working out the cost of diamonds and then converting that into troops.

2 Likes

No, the difference is tiny.

I’d argue that the only gold prim worth levelling is the destroyer, because that’s the one with the biggest gains.

But if it was a “must have” it would make it much harder for other players to catch up.

For f2p players gold is most certainly an issue.

6 Likes

You definitely prepared a detailed post and clearly outline your thoughts.

Wholeheartedly agreed here unless an innovated way to create new types of prims is implemented. I talked to this somewhat a while back in this post and sincerely hoped that variation was coming with Gold1 tier. I understand that with new types of prims you also have at least two significant further issues to consider and try to manage: 1. Complexity in battle mechanics and 2. Potential exacerbation of Atlas’ lag. Fine line to walk here but more of the same is not what I want to see in Atlas.

This is actually one of the ideas I had for prim diversity that never made it to the forums: a prim that has a special ability to increase revive rate. Another was a DoT (like poison or erosion) that I feel needs work to make it viable due to the fast pace of Atlas (maybe if it offered an enfeeble function to a specific prim or that could be another concept of its own). A third was an “anti” sieger that countered the sieger’s fort debuff somewhat. stated again, diversity would be great to see.

With regards to the topic of increase levels that are high cost for low stat gains; how would you have improved this? Less levels with comparable stat increase gradients to previous tiers?

IMO, there was a clear design intent here to draw out the time taken to max these prims and try to reduce the time before a significant portion of the player base had maxed prims for an extended period; thereby, reducing overall cadence. Personally, I support the design intent as I know when people have maxed prims for a while they will demand that a new tier comes out not just to keeps things moving but also because more players will catch up and their relative dominance will be reduced. This leads to my next point.

Why fixate on intra-tier pairings here? Preservation of intra tier conflict results shows the preservation of balance and should be applauded. Also, that cherry-picked combination is rather bizarre as other prims like siegers actually got slight amendments to their stat gain gradients that do change the intra tier behaviour. A sieger now has a slightly better defense (previously mentioned here) than otherwise expected meaning that, when attacked, the overall combat ratio yields a potentially better glory outcome for the attacker and potentially less troops lost from the sieger (key situation is trapper counter sniping a sieger).

Inter tier relationships are what is the true reflection of balance and the lower stat gradient of Gold prims actually helps to preserve the relevance of previous tiers by making the stat increase no where near as steep as we would have expected based on previous tiers. I showed in these posts (gold tier and platinum tier) how that could have looked based on old trends.

I actually would have liked to see this for all gold prim battles much the same as original silver tier used to have. Similarly, have the inter tier battles restricted to losses of the lowest tier in the conflict.

Why not use diamonds? I’ve never invested timers into prim levelling and never found myself in a situation where I felt tempted to. For me, this is a moot point.

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I am a weirdo I smash my 15 minute timers into the prims :smiley:

I’ll likley get RSI soon!

But agree diamonds makes more sense since it is also the atlas currency.

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One of my main issues with prims and prim
Levelling is the gold cost. It is absolutely absurdly expensive for anyone who is not an elite player. It takes more than an entire days multis for even a single silver prim level

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That would depend on activity. F2P may get less gold but also less hats. I ran f2p on my alt and gold was never an issue. Just had to do more runs.
Whenever I’m on forums and say something, it’s based on my own level of activity, so what is possible.
For those less active, then yes gold would be an issue.

1 Like