Time to reach "end game"

So I am curious what people think is a “valid” time to hit end game dragons. Not some crazy max base thing just to have the dragons to hit those bases.

I believe I saw Morrion say that, from beginning to end, was 2+ YEARS of work with the current discounts. To me this seems entirely too long. Just curious what everyone else thinks

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I agree with Morreion if you play smart and plan stuff .

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So you think that 2+ years is an acceptable amount of time?

Not judging, just seeking clarification

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Yes I know somebody who went 450 from january to august only with proper planning and help from her bf score in pvp :rofl: . So yeah that is possible.

Think of it like this , the elite player who plans and plays hard can achieve 2k timers over a month which translates to good amount of xp . And If I am not mistaken it’s around 530 or less to have artisans atm which is pretty low if you ask me

What do you mean by acceptable time? Do you mean what’s a reasonable time with the game as it stands? Or what it should be in an ideal world/game?

Also endgame is a relative term. Is it endgame when you have one 127 tower? Or 10, or 40? Should you have maxed research to really be endgame? Full mythic gear?

I think a more consistent target might be something like n-2, so currently Verdant dragon. I think that that’s generally a point where you can really participate at pretty much all levels of the game. I think it would be awesome if an active smart player could get there in a year, but with discounts alone that’s hardly possible. Also a year is actually a pretty short time to really learn the intricacies of high level mechanics and interactions, so much faster than that would likely not be great.

As it stands you can get to 300 and harbinger pretty fast, well under a year, and it’s actually pretty hard to really pick up mechanics fast enough. I think getting from there to Verdant will easily take another year, probably more. That’s probably longer than it should be, but also not trivial to speed that up much without some fundamental changes.

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I’m more curious about personal opinions. (Ie I see as 2 years as too long but some may disagree)

End game dragons that are capped (due to current content). I think I said that in original post but may have not been clear

Gear and runes excluded

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I will be end game after exactly 2 years
Imo it’s long for a game

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I think you have to look at more then what is possible. If a person starts and alt I’m sure they can burn through levels fairly fast. When I started I didn’t take the game overly seriously. I ended up on a dead team and had to figure things out in my own. That took a while before I started playing more seriously and got recruited by better teams. I wasted a lot of time and had to fix many mistakes.

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btw it’s really important to reach the end game in this game. Yes of course you are playing the same game and there are other things that fires you to play the game in the lower levels too, but for example the oppurtunity to attack taunters with maxed bases with defenders in atlas… you need to get this chance faster

1 year is fairly enough

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Perhaps I should rephrase my question

If you were a new player starting today and someone told you that "in 2 years you can hit end game dragons " would you feel like that’s an acceptable amount of time? Too long? Too short?

Ah sorry you did specify dragons specifically. Without gear they still won’t hit endgame bases of course but let’s put that aside.

It takes 5.8m tokens to get your first artisan. So getting there in 2y (100 weeks) requires 58k tokens per week average. That’s possible but pretty steep even for an active player to average over a whole career. I think currently it’s closer to 3 years than 2 years to get there as e2p.

I do think 2 years to hit endgame would be pretty ok, it’s a pretty complicated game with a lot of planning involved, and at the endgame/atlas level more than a bit of mechanics and diplomacy too. It takes real time to get comfortable with that.

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Lived exactly the same. I was talking to my cousen, he was asking for how long you have been playing? I told him around 1 year and 9 months. He asked ‘‘You are still not an end game?’’ I said no… He just didn’t continue.

There are different games, mobas, online fps games etc. You are starting those games equally with all others. The genesis who are between 15-25 want to have what they want as soon as possible. If you tell them that they will spend 2 years, and then maybe can be someone between those beasts, they just quit mostly.

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This is a very interesting add on to consider so thank you for mentioning it. I play other games (mostly console) and there isn’t the team aspect we have here.

I’m 2 years in and stuck at one tier for one and half seasons and still 3 tiers below end game
So I’d say 3 more seasons for me to reach end game, so 3 years and yes it’s damn too much and I consider myself quite active altho I’m free to play, no elite

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Very interesting discussion. As for a definition of end game, I have generally accepted the one offered by JL since they defined it:

So a player in end game would preferably be classified as:

1. Being in N tier with N tier’s full unlock
2. Tower level based on N tier (Lvl 88 to 90 Currently)
3. A mid long base that ends at Island 6 with 2 perches (Island 1 being closest to Castle/Den)
4. Offensive and Defensive gear at near max Elite 90%/90%

I like how this discussion moved away from end game and started to look at the point at which players can contribute to the end game meta. Our priority as a community should be to try and funnel new players up to that point so we can get a competitive and lively end game dynamic.

I believe that 2 years is too long of a time barrier for a new player to face. That being said, it would appear that it’s an exceedingly complex task to apply corrective measures that can be applied to expedite the early to mid game experience that won’t that won’t end up either 1) devaluing the effort other players have put into progressing 2. Upsetting resource balance.

To clarify 1), by devalue I don’t necessarily mean that one person had to pay or grind to get to end game and another gets and easier rider, I mean that corrective measures should not allow new players to frog jump over current early and mid game players. An example of this would be if breeding “fast lanes” were introduced allowing players to traverse early game tiers at a much greater speed. Depending on how this could be implemented, existing player may have to breed themselves out of a mess to get to a point where they could take advantage of it and potentially be over taken by a newer player.

To clarify 2), using the fast lanes idea as a hypothetical example again, massive truncation of breeding makes tokens no longer the rate limiting resource (this is true now with tier-based discounting actually) and then introduces a timer limiting factor on it while the player tries to keep up with the massive levels needed to be gained each month to keep up with breeding and avoid den locks, rss caps, etc. Resource management in this game is complex even when only considering the basic and bare minimums. More premium resources like Cosmic Charges need further levels of detail and control to manage as they are also time-limited through exclusivity.

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The data PG displayed somewhat recently, I don’t know where it is now, but it said most active players and majority of the players were within the limit of 500-600 level and new players were very less, for these new players to reach upto the rest of the majority and active community, 2 years is too long
By the time they take to reach 500 or current end game, the active community would be among range of 700 -800 :joy: it’s never ending.

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I’m more looking for “what do you think is an acceptable time to go from red to artisan.” No gear (definitely adds time). No politics (adds crap tons of time due to people being people)

I started in May 2017 and I think Abysall mythics (Dec 2019) were the first tier I was able to breed right after they were released and I was officially caught up in terms of breeding progress and having some end tier towers. That’s of course with me missing nearly all the tier discounts as they came out. That’s also with being Elite only.

Most of it depends on activity though. There are people I used to play with on my original team that are still under 400 after 4yrs of “playing” in P4 and dont do atlas.

Depends on what you mean. Does that mean end game as in 2 years from now where they have tier 23-24 dragons or does that mean they reach Artisan in 2 years?

Because this game so heavily requires Atlas and atlas pretty much requires end tier dragons, I think 2 years to reach 2 yrs from now end tier is a bit long to expect people to stick around. A lot of it also depends on the individual and how competitive of a person they are and if what type of league they’d be most comfortable being in.
Before Atlas become pretty much mandatory, I’d have said 2 yrs seems reasonable or even a little quick. The entire reason I pushed to reach end tier was because I had nearly no chance in atlas with lower tier dragons once they change the recovery rates and people stopped leaving troop heavy primes in NML. The huge taunters on access castles just made it almost impossible to do anything.

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Well, if no solutions are needed, I’d posit that 12-18 months is acceptable. Gear is not the main reason for me here, it is the knowledge and comfort.

A performance based model of progression might be interesting to see here. In a test environment, it would be interesting to see how many people can get to a skill and knowledge level that allows them to compete at end game dragon-wise and what time that takes. Completely disregards base progression, of course.

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In 2 years, said person can have "end game dragons "

From what morrion said a few posts up though about 3 years it makes me cringe :grimacing:

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