Tower levelling is becoming complicated

In my opinion tower levelling is becoming quite messy if a players aim is to maximise timer and resource use efficiency.

If you ask most people what is the best way to take a dark flak tower from 129 to 130 they will say just level it up once.

Well if you do that you will waste 25 days in timers.

It is much more efficient to instead level up an ice or fire turret to L25 and merge that into your dark flak.

source Neon War Dragons

And the problem is as towers get bigger and bigger that this problem gets worse because the timer costs increase but the XP doesn’t.

Chart 1 : Raw - Toee timer costs with XP gained

Chart 2 : Efficiency- XP earned over timers spent

The problem is that XP and timers travel together quite nicely until level 53. Tower level 53 grants 106k xp per tower but unfortunately XP never increases from tower level 53.

This is due to tier based scaling which is an important mechanic so that new players can have a meaningful impact within 12-24 months instead of 3-4 years.

It is crazy that levelling a tower from 53 to 54 gives exactly the same XP as levelling a tower level 129 to 130 given the huge difference in timers needed and that a L130 tower is ridiculously more powerful than a L54 tower.

Imagine playing a game where one hitting a weak goblin gives the same XP as killing an end game dragon… that is what is happening here and it’s kinda frustrating.

So anyone leveling towers beyond 75 is paying a high efficiency premium and that premium gets more and more expensive as we progress tower levels up.

As a player it is becoming quite tedious to work out an efficient levelling path - it shouldn’t be this complex.

The main issue in my opinion is that XP doesn’t follow tower level. I think for all future tower levels that XP needs to move up with the tower level if timer cost increases.

Or if this is not possible then timer costs should stay stagnant with XP also being stagnate.

Having one increase and the other remain static is in my opinion very problematic especially as we hit even higher tower levels.

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Omit Tier based discounting, and both are the same since 53

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129 to 130 is a wood level…

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No you’re just reading the outcome wrong.

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Ahh I get it now - thanks!!

Deleting post above to remove any additional confusion and fixed my original post.

And thats the challenge.

Tier based discounting is definitely needed so new players can be useful faster.

Merging is required to evolve and adapt to the current meta.

But at end game if you wanna maximise efficiency then it becomes fairly complex and careful planning is needed otherwise you will waste a lot of timers.

Perhaps each time tier based discounting is introduced XP needs to be inversely updated to maintain the balance?

But given so many players have stored max level towers I’m sure they would be upset to miss out on the XP.

XP is tangled spaghettically, thus changing it will cause problems. Therefore, leaving it will be the best, thus current tier based discounting mechanic is among the best approaches I believe.

For a note, saying that merging use less timers is incomplete, as it always use more rss. That merging process trades shards for timers, hence using less timers despite more rubbles converted.

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Yep thats true - each player will have a different perception on the value of ice and fire shards.

Newer / Smaller players may actually find them usable.

I think most older / bigger players would prefer newer towers for the improved stats.

Some people might even enjoy the complexity of working out an optimal way to level towers and perhaps there is an argument for rewarding that work.

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The ember costs for flaks is getting to be rediculous. Almost 350k embers to start and max a new flak is insane on top of trying to maintain the ones you already have. Keep the wood costs the same but the ember costs need to be adjusted or the ember payouts from lines and chests needs to be increased. At nearly lv 600 Im great on timers but trying to get enough embers to build a new flak while keeping enough on hand to level existing flaks is very difficult (I use my turrets to merge into electrum towers because the tower line barely gives any now)

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Yeah agreed. I’m at the point again where I will struggle to level a new flak or howie due to the amount of embers and electrum’s needed compared to what we are able to get.
I still have 5.5k days of timers but just not enough building res.

Im using turrets to level flaks as much as I can but I’m actually getting low now on shards (about 200k of each) so they won’t sustain me much longer.

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Yeah, electrums have become a big issue for me ever since they devalued the tower line. I get it every season but claiming timers over electrums only gives about 100k electrums which mostly go towards maintaining 2 howitzers and 2 orrerys each season so there really isn’t much chance for me to even build a new electrum tower unless I transform a flak.

Im down to about 150k of each shard so that wont last me too long either. Unfortunately this economy just isn’t sustainable unless you spend or waste your chests. Rss costs keep going up but prizes and drops do not. But hey, at least we have black pearls that we’ll never be able to run out of :sweat_smile: :face_vomiting:

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for the past few seasons to keep up with electrums ive had to open golds but that is a choice i guess and will hamper me during the discount fortnight and my goal of a seasonal mythic.

Will not stop me but will alter the way i have to use my chests collected the previous season.

i guess while the economy is no doubt broken we need to perhaps look at what we expect for limited financial investment and a lot of time against what the developers need to keep the light on etc.

There is no doubt a need for cash and thought needs to go into getting this without alienating the ftp etp and spenders all of whom play their part in the games Eco structure with the loss of any group being felt by all groups.

guess not as easy now as save and open during first pvp.

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Am I missing something here?

4 level 21 turrets, merging to a lvl 116 flak doesn’t even take it to 117.
A level 71 lightning, merging to a lvl 116 flak doesn’t take it to 117.
But a 71 lightning, and 2x 51 lightnings would take it to only 117.

What is all this about merging a 51 turret to take a flak from 129 to 130?

(Not to mention that taking a flak from 116 to 117 costs a lot more than 25 days of timers)

What have I missed?

Think hes taliking about saving timers in the wood phase of the builds.

129 to 130 flak is 35 days discounted
a level 25 turret is 10 days discounted but 5600 shards
so you can pay 5600 shards and get 25 days of timers kinnda

i think thats what the neon ss he posted is suggesting

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for the 128 to 129 jump the ember level
128 to 129 flack is 35 days discounted and 15,600 embers
a level 59 turret is 85 days and 24,000 shards

so if rich on timers and shards you can swap 50 days and 24k shards and level your flak using a ice/fire turret.

using wood towers like lightnings into ember towers and you need a lot of them due to the weighting of wood to shards to embers.

i think. i dont bother with this i just level the thing if i have the bits or i don’t bother

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That’s what I mean by it’s getting complicated half of us myself included don’t know off hand the most optimal way to level a tower without using say @Morreion 's website.

I think your first example is spot on.

I for example have a 124 blue mage that I wanna take to 130. Its dirt cheap going the shard route and ill save 150 days in timers

But a level 25 Turret won’t upgrade a flak from 116 to 117, let alone 124 to 125, or 129 to 130 (I have a level 25 turret, and have clicked on ‘merge’ for one - it isn’t enough. It refuses.)

It will upgrade a mage, presumably because a mage only uses wood, but not a flak.

I don’t know what level turret is needed to upgrade a flak, but I suspect it is rather much higher.

If that spreadsheet suggests that a level 25 turret can be merged to up a flak of that level, then either my game is broken, or the spreadsheet is wrong…or I am misinterpreting what you are suggesting.

[edit:]
Looking at it again, the level 25 turret will only upgrade a flak if it’s is only wood cost, not ember cost, so you are implying every OTHER level I assume? Seems I have misunderstood.

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At some point you’ll runout of ice/fire shards

Then you’re really screwed!

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Will PG ever actually make use of them again for something else?

I kinda hope so. Seems silly to waste the currency.

Thats correct ice / fire shards are great on many but not all wood combos.

You can use ice and fire shards to save timers on flaks and newer towers as well but could get gated into an XP hole.

Super random example below :

Can save 17 days in timers but going to pay crazy amount of shards and a 3.2mm XP black hole.

No one would do that unless they have tonnes of shards and or wanna make their levelling slow down to boost their DP for their level.

But you could do something like this and save 33 days in timers and not use any bars :

Ideally for a fort if we all wanna min/max our bases we probably should very carefully upgrade and merge towers where it makes sense over the entire event. Many players could save hundreds of days in timers assuming they have the shards.

While my cheap example was on a blue mage it’s equally good for lightning towers.

You can save 150-300 days on a single tower.