I got Donovalis because I liked it. Some people do play this game for more/different reasons than full optimization.
Red, I really love all your contributions to the game and really respect your experience so I have hesitated to argue with you on this. But it really bothers me that you are putting forth such strong opinions on dragons that you “don’t like” and “don’t fly”. As someone who has and does fly Sage a lot, I can tell you that this change to thunderstorm will make it so that Sage is no longer a usable dragon for me- even given the other “balancing changes” that are being done. It is that significant of a change. I know that you can’t comprehend why I fly him so it will be difficult for me to get through to you on this anyway- but I feel compelled to try.
You are presenting things as fact that I don’t accept.
- “This spell had to be balanced in one way or another” Why?? Nothing was broken? None of these dragons are OP, nor is the spell itself.
- “the change to Red is likely the change that is least likely to break the game”. This doesn’t make sense considering #1. If the game isn’t broken now- why are we forcing ourselves into some change that might break it just for some arbitrary sense of consistency in spell categorization?
- “none of these dragons are good anyway (maybe people will listen to older players more when we say not go get these)” Honestly, this is just insulting. Just because some think we made the wrong choice or that we are lazy for not using a hunter, that doesn’t mean we deserve to have the dragon we love and paid for taken away.
Bottom line- there is nothing wrong with the spell. It’s not hurting anything as-is. It’s not upsetting the balance of the game. If it was, people would be running in fear of Sage, not Noc. lol
Why cause all this pain to “fix” something that isn’t a problem?
I’m pleading with you to try to put yourself in our shoes.
So a couple of things:
- Thank you! Just because you like my other contributions doesn’t mean you have to agree with me on anything. No worries.
- You are missing on very key items on this…
- I really really really really really loved flying Meridian. He was my babe and even though people told me he wasn’t a good use of tokens, I got him anyway because I enjoyed flying him. I have flown these dragons when they were some of the more top dragons in their tier, and I have an expert Sage.
- Allow me to further share my experiences. You by no means have to agree with them, but like you I have a particular set of experiences that we do not share.
- The spell itself has gone through many, many changes. In fact, a lot of spells in the game have gone through many changes. Allow me to further share my perspective and experiences on this. The two most notable times PG “balanaced” a spell without changing it’s color or it’s coding (to make it work with runes like what happened with lethal barrier), they simply nerfed the spell. It is my experience that PG will change the color or simple nerf the spell, like they did last time they “balanced” thunderstorm.
- When I say changing it to Red was the least likely to break the game, I meant compared to making the Blue Mage Tower work to stop the spell. It has nothing to do with balance, it has to do with the track record of spells and changing spells. Adjusting how a spell works has, in the past, broken it for a long period of time. Thus, when I thought about the options since PG is going to do something, I was left with the three most logical conclusions: they would keep it blue and try to “fix” the blue mage which would then break more things, they would simply change the color to red, or they would nerf the spell’s damage. With my experiences, there is only one choice I would support.
- Again, as someone who has made choices that the competitive community considers as “wrong” (myself included), I get what you’re saying. However, with the hundreds of messages I use to get with people trying to help them with breeding, I have become somewhat biter. “I cannot solo a base my own level, what am I doing wrong?” when in fact it isn’t their fault and it honestly does come down to breeding. Enjoy those dragons, nothings says you can’t. Hell I still love my old Meridian. However, I stated a fact of the community. I do not believe you deserve to have anything taken away, but I will also point out that there is a “lesser of the evils” thing here. They will nerf thunderstorm again, I feel, if we do not want them to change the color. That nerf is what broke all those sorcerers in the first place. This is an arguement I have been having for well over a year and a half. PG made a lot of mistakes, and there is nothing they can do at this point to keep everyone happy.
Lastly, I feel a balance change is needed for the future of this spell. The more sorcerer spells that are placed on warriors, the more balance issues I feel we would have. Additionally, I do think a buff to warriors are coming, and since thunderstom is directly tied to the stats of the dragon it is on, balance is a dangerous game we are playing, here.
I have been in your shoes when I went through the very first thunderstorm nerf. I am trying to push for the change that I feel would honestly hurt people the least, because if the color isn’t changed and the blue is deemed to be too much work, they will nerf the damage of the spell, again, and completely detroy without a doubt all the dragons that have it.
I vote for THIS:
“Rename sages thunderstorm to lightning storm or similar.”
Im with you on this Jenny!
All of this is based on the belief that PG has to do something about TS… WHY?
TS is NOT an OP spell. Why do you feel so strongly that it needs to be adjusted at all?
At the low levels, I think it is. Just like at the low levels, a ballista can do some damage.
Do I think it’s a high priority? God no. I also don’t feel super strongly about this whole thing, I am just an active poster because, well, Internets.
More OP then Fenrok was when we were at that level range? I guess i just dont agree it is OP at any level. Oh well.
Oh I am talking like 30s-low 100s hahaha. And dude, if you wanna say OP, Dimmaaaaaa
That dragon looks so attractive! I can’t get it anymore
But after saying your best breeding path is too good, it still has too few dragons
The only thing i want to say now for those complaining about the change with TS is that not every dragon is meant for every base. Some bases have two reds covering their main long island, and anyone to try and use sage on it obviously needs to reassess their attack plans. No dragon should be a universal killing machine *cough cough Noctua Cough… This change will make you all better fliers as you will now have to choose your dragon before attacking instead of just spamming a broken spell and calling it skill.
This is not me calling anyone a bad flier, i am simply stating that those in favor of TS as it is needs to realize that not every spell can just negate mages and attack rules. It’s more fun if you have to think!
People tell me not to use Renard regularly and I still do. In wars even Granted I might not use him anymore if his thunderstorm is changed to red as he will not longer be as strong or useful.
But he still looks so handsome!
Even if that was the intention , there are and was blue spells out which caused damage. Some directly and some indirectly.
It was at least a variation in the game… Look since start, explosive shield, seething spark, superfreeze, thunderstorm, malefic breath and so on… are spells which cause of there effect damage too…
Beside that now where white spells are out, its not a priority to go back and take some dragon all they had at least and make that spell worthless.
- Come and speak with the team to let it as a blue spell, but let it be stop by blue mage as other blue spells. That way it isnt a Aura anymore, and you need destroy the blue mage firstly, and it will stop when dragon will fly in the range of that blue mage again… As with some new types of shields aswell.
I think this solution is far better than making it “now” red, after years and changes and new greater spells. At least just 1 warrior divine and sorceres have it, and they have it because they need.
Please check that closely with people who know that situation and gamestyles. Thanks
Thanks for the response, Red.
I think part of this (and I don’t mean this against you specifically) is the feeling that those who are upset about the change are being told by people who don’t have or use Sage that this isn’t going to be a big deal and we should quit whining. Meanwhile their Borgian or Fae or Noc (that we don’t have) continues to fly at full strength against us.
And at the heart of it all, as Mike said, we just don’t understand why there’s a need for a change in the first place…
Thunderstorm is broken, that’s for sure. A two rage blue spell shouldn’t be impossible to stop. A long island full of blue mages wouldn’t stop it.
This being said, I think Kinnarus is more OP than Sage and changing TS to red completely ruins the spell.
If they do change it to red, they should do as others suggested and leave Sage’s version of the spell alone. Otherwise, they should make TS act like a shield or cloak etc., continuous casting that can be interrupted.
I started this game in the middle of Sage’s season. Paid full price for Abraxxas because him and his portrait avatar looked “cool”. I regretted that decision but if they make TS red and buff Abraxxas’ breath spells, he might end up being the better warrior. This is wrong to do to the people who researched properly and made the wisest choice on which dragon to choose that season.
Someone (forgot who) mentioned that Tstorm balances sorcerers but is OP on a warrior. This is the root of the issue IMO.
If Sage had never gotten Tstorm, I don’t think we’d be having this discussion. Sorcerers are underwhelming enough that an overpowering, average rage costing unstoppable spell makes up for their lackluster dps and low health, placing them more reliably alongside hunters and warriors (still not better).
Taking that booster seat of a spell and placing it on a warrior, with its high health and better dps, produces a dragon that is more powerful than it should be.
Tstorm is an aid in the sense that it can attack a full 10 towers with one cast, is not stopped by a blue mage once cast and continues after the dragon dies. If defenders try to activate a storm tower to protect from the thunderbolts, their supershot is wasted because the storm won’t activate until the dragon gets closer. I won’t say there’s one perfect solution, but I do agree that some change was needed. I would’ve preferred only the consumable and non-sorcerer class dragons to be affected, but something tells me the Sage-supporters would’ve hated that even more.
I don’t get it. The same people saying that TS is overpowered on a warrior are the ones who say that Sage is a worthless drag and we shouldn’t worry about him because we’ll learn that there are better drags when we get more experience?
Which is it? I think it’s pretty clear nobody thinks Sage is OP- AT ANY LEVEL. lol
Which begs the question- why does he need to be nerfed??
I never said Sage is a worthless dragon. Against max level towers and/or defenders, Sage, like most dragons, will fail. Considering it’s max tier and relative user base level, Sage is great. Wouldn’t be great for me now that I’m wrapping up Emerald, but for players below 200, different story.
However, it irks me more when a dragon like Algor or Stormheim can have thunderstorm added to it and decimate the entire long island without even directly engaging half of it. That’s a problem. & I imagine players in Sage’s level range who are on the receiving end of a very similar situation would feel a bit powerless watching Sage as well.
Dreadful roar continues to damage after the dragon dies.