Upcoming Changes to the Winterjól Mythic, Surt - Discussion Thread


#833

Everyone got Elemental towers on there base now, miss or no miss with “Ragnarok”, he takes Damage like a warrior/tank that’s the problem.

Im not saying nerf his healing % or Ragnarok at all, I’m just saying change his resist to something else then Elemental resist. So defenders got an actual chance shooting him down. With no defenders I understand most dragons can solo a base easily, but with experience Defenders like myself & others he shouldn’t walk through a base like it’s nothing.


#834

I think he’s fine the way he is just because of this ^. I recently noticed this on my base as well, as the player casted ragnarok right after my fireflak SS landed on him and my storm was still about 25% alive.

I mean Yes, if they played it smart and waited for all the supershots they still kill the base at same tier I suppose, but this does also give time to knock him down if not played 100% right. Sure a simple change could balance it a bit better but at least the last nerf wasn’t a complete fail and it did balance the dragon to an extent. :man_shrugging:


#835

Did you kill him on your base?
That’s the real question here…


#836

Yes, He did die a few seconds later. But I don’t know how that’s important, since if he doesn’t kill any towers he doesn’t heal and he dies. :roll_eyes:


#837

Nvm he died my apologies.


#838

All I’m getting at is they need to change his resist, they did it to Snowdrop when he had “Storm” resist then they change it the next day or the same day to “ Ice Turrent” resist.

They can do it, it will make “ Surt” Balance.

People actually got a better chance on shooting him down( of course if they Defend correctly) if they change his resist.

An I’m fully aware the owners of Surt will be you made him garbage/trash now, even though they knew he was Op with that resist they can walk through a base easily. You can’t please everyone, they will complain for a simple change even though the dragon is still capable of killing towers with one shot with “Ragnarok” an that’s totally understandable.


#839

Generally even if I by accident ragnarok while fireflak effect is up you still heal to full and just ragnarok again 3-4 seconds later, assuming you aimed properly. Also swipe+Ragnarok still kills all towers even with fireflak effect and thats on max bases with my crap gear


#840

What rarity is your gear?


#841

So I’ve been flying my surt at garnet, emerald, and now low obsidian for about a week now.

It seems to be not in a terrible place, but health and rage do seem to be excessive. The runes make the otherwise balanced incinerate spell heal a lot more than it should and add a good chunk of hp

But more problematic is that 3 rage comes for free. It’s like super sacrifice with no tradeoff. Just wait long enough to trigger it. Now maybe that’s a good direction for sorcerers to have burstable rage, kind of like hunters have burstable ammo. But when combined with healing it seems much still.

Damage does seem to be in a close enough spot. It still hits up much farther than any previous dragon.

I will say it does have more thought needed than corthinak did due to red mage placement. But it’s not hard to look at the red mages before flying the base… (some may not commit layout/plan to memory so easily). Red’s in the back can cause issues if you aren’t close enough to cast incinerate.

But yeah health is crazy regen’d. And rage planning is simplified with 3 rage burstable without even needing 1 rage (like
Bloodfury does) it makes rage runes kind of pointless. Remembering to kill the atlas wall befor turning is probably the thing that I’ve spaced on the most. That and just bad placement of the aoe.

Dragon is still way strong


#842

Honestly His Damage output is fine at the current state it is in, the Survivability is the problem.
Pg need to simply change his resist so he can take more incoming damage so defenders got a fair chances on shooting him down or reduced his healing %’s when he kills a building.


#843

GFS relax, new towers are on the way. He’s no longer in need of an emergency nerf. Hate the free rage or not but it will die if it costs one rage. Not maybe but will.

Now if ya wanna make it cost health to feel better then that’s cool, it will at least make ya a little more vulnerable until you can heal.

How bout we stop going around in circles and repeating the same things day in and day out and see how he plays out over the rest of the season. They could even be creating a strong non elemental tower (who knows what the timeline would be on that)


#844

New towers? Really :smirk:
At vanguard Surt has no problem going through max bases, what makes you think he will have a problem with those towers to.

I’m just sating the facts, you are well aware he’s still Op that’s why your defending him just to leave him be. I’m sorry but that can’t happen there’s still balance needed with him.

You seen in Odin videos( no, he doesn’t have Surt people send him videos flying him) he went through max out bases with no problem & on top of that there were defenders defending an he stilled solo’s the base…

So what you say?

Wait until the new towers come out then he will be ok?
Like really :man_facepalming: Why would you say a lie like that.


#845

First ya clearly didn’t read my whole post. I’m not just talking about new levels. Two Odin does not have a video of post nerf Surt. Or even a defended video of Surt on his page. :man_shrugging:t2:

Sounds to me like people are finding more effective workarounds than just a double rm. especially after the nerf. Is it 100% effective? No but people can no longer mess up with a fat finger and keep on to solo the base.

ERM has been a stout supporter of nerfing Surt, and he generally had good points even if he had to get them published before posting. That said even he has had a slight change in opinion of surt… I did say slight lol not saying he doesn’t think another change could be useful as I would assume he would still like to see some things change.

With all that, you say ignore the future? That’s dumb maybe PGs whole purpose of this is for people to change their bases and make more money? Adding a brand new tower to combat all these elemental resist drags would be a smart move. And if they nerf him again and then add any potential new tower, it would likely make him trash.

How long does a fire turrets super shot increase damage to a dragon for?


#846

This…


#847

Make it Sacrifice derivative instead of BloodLust derivative?

-edit-

Plus crazy HP regen


#848

The dumbest class proves you wrong. Hello UVS.

This dragon sucks bad for the majority of the playerbase bc the majority of any given game consists of randoms and casuals who want easy entertainment and they want to win otherwise they become bored and put their money elsewhere.

However, if even warriors can come with skill sets then sorcerers can too.

In fact Surt could also become more skillful by tweaking his healing abilities or even the resist.

Ppl just got used to „easy“ dragons.


#849

I wonder if the right direction might be to modify the runes so they add damage rather than healing. It’d help deal with the “buff Ragnarok” crowd in the middle tiers, where it sounds like gear imbalances can prevent him from being as damaging as intended. But it’d also give him less survivability, since he couldn’t heal as much, so he could be killed more effectively at the top tiers and/or by a strong defense.

It’d also mean that at the top he’d have more potential as a cleanup dragon and against undefended bases, but that especially against maxed bases he’d be more vulnerable to defenders, and to attrition. Just a little more glass cannon-y and a little less tanky.

As I think I’ve seen a few people suggest, it could come with a health cost, but then - as others have pointed out - that could be very hard to balance. After all, he’s a dragon that’s 50% high damage and 50% high healing. There’s always just the idea of knocking a couple percentage points off his healing spells, but that’d also be hard to balance I suspect. Some people would continue screaming that he’s too powerful (and honestly, some probably will unless he’s nerfed to uselessness) and some are already screaming that he’s been nerfed too much.

That burstable rage is really a necessity for him, though, or he’s a little too easy to render utterly harmless. I wonder if maybe it’d be more balanced if he just regained rage extremely rapidly over a few seconds. So instead of an instant +3 rage it’d be, I don’t know, +500% (or whatever) rage regen for a few seconds, and canceling out the whole rage-freezing effect of mage supershots. A little larger window for people to counter him, but still a reliable way for him to rapidly gain rage.


#850

It isnt hard to make him skill based, eg ragnarok could have had ice shock radius and incinerate could have been a white dg.

But that makes it a completely different dragon than what was advertised.

Im hesitant to suggest much changes to him other than to cap the healing from ragnarok to 60-66% of total hp for a 5 tower kill.

Incinerates healing is hardly an issue.

Simply capping the heal would still make him kill the first island, and he would then need to outplay on the second - eg use some form of skilled interaction, to get past the second. Which is fine - means average kills 1 island, skilled kills 2 and change

Thats plenty. It also has the benefit of staying as advertised


#851

Surt’s “nerf” did not affect his “ability” to asphalt bases well above her level. From super duper overpower to OOverpower ( in short, nothing has changed ).


#852

The most irritating thing about the event mythic is that i can’t make an informed decision whether to put my limited resources into getting one. I was very interested in surt, so I started to go for him. Then I heard he was being nerfed, so I stopped to see what the changes were. Opinions here range from not worth it anymore to little changed. Should I continue to get him? What’s to say he won’t be nerfed again after the season when it’s too late? Should I save my chests and money for next season’s mythic? Experience tells me that that one will come out looking too good to be true and be nerfed also. I guess I’m just saying for me, who can’t afford mythics every season, I would just like the dragon to come out after testing at all levels of players. My opinion is that it should be better in some way than the other event dragons, but reasonable enough so that nerfing will not be needed. Then I can evaluate if the dragon is worth it for me or not, without worrying about it only being worth it for a few months.