Winner or Wipe-out


#1

As the new season is approaching, and more details are released on the new divine dragons, every player is trying to figure out what dragons will be winners, and which ones are perch-warmers. We all have seen dragons which have turned out to be amazing, and others which have been total lemons.

For the most part, it comes down to the dragon’s spell set. Some spells are incredibly efficiant, while others are prohibitively expensive in rage costs, or just pretty much useless. However, even the strongest spells in the game do not always make a great dragon. Summon dodo is a really powerful spell, but Necryx would be a terrible dragon if you swapped his elemental barrier for this spell. A similar problem would result if Kinnarus’s invincibility shield was exchanged for elemental barrier. It just would not be the same.

So, I propose that we get together as a community and try to find out what makes a dragon tick. What spells make a great sorcerer? Multiple AoEs? A form of invincibility? A summon guardian? What about warrior? Is better to have fewer active spells, and more resists? Is a damage boost like heated breath required to make a it great? Are there multiple styles of good hunters or warriors? Is a cloaking spell a must for all great hunters? I would like to look at not only what spells have worked together, but hopefully get down to why these spells work well together.

There are so many unanswered questions, but loads of data. Can we find a specific role that is best filled by each dragon? Is there any spell set that would allow a warrior or a sorcerer to actually be a lead? Perhaps along the way we could come up with good ideas for brand new spells. So many new spells are almost carbon copies of older spells. There must be some new ideas out there for original spells that would balance well with the game.

Thank you for your feedback on this idea,

DerangedSkrill

PS. I would like to make this a constructive thread, so for those who just want to say “I hate PG” or “So-and-so is a blankety-blank,” there a plenty of other threads for you to choose from. Thanks!


#2

For the most part all this information is out there already and if you have experience you can tell how effective a dragon will be, but it largely depends on where you are in the game.

For myself it works out like this:

Warriors = garbage,
sorcs = meh
hunters = MUST have damage mitigation and a damage spell and the best ones have a way to generate rage.
- Cloak is a go to for hunters because it can be used to mitigate damage AND to gain rage.

As long as a hunter has those first 2 things things it will be decent. Although certain spells are particularly effective. This seasons hunter will be a good dragon, simply because it has cloak (mitigation and rage), HM (i’d fit that under the damage mitigation category) and it has a damage spell (its havok thing). For myself it will be useful

That said it will only be useful to those that have access to Obsidian to make use of its Mythic stats and because it will be similar to Borg in many respects (same resist, cloak and HM).

This is how i need to read into dragons. Warriors are more effective for lower levels but largely follow the same rules. Damage mitigation and damage increase ability. If it doesn’t have spells that add to both of those it will not be effective.

Sorcs, same thing again, but because their spells are key they also need an ability to help them deal with mages. Summon helps as it targets mages first (also fitting into the damage category), spell flux is best.


#3

The thing is, some warriors have been somewhat decent. One notable example was Zamrok, from the summer season. As a follow-up dragon behind Necryx, he is amazingly good. His one weakness is a blue mage + dark flak combination. Necryx can easily disable the mages with sand, leaving him free to kill the flak with northern lights activated. What I want to know is what other dragons in the warrior category are useful, we can figure out what to look for.

One common theme I think I has seen in good warriors and sorcerers is the necessity of a good shield.


#4

Read @Gox1201’s recent comments. He has very detailed thoughts on what makes a good warrior.


#5

Not in D1. That’s why I premised my statement by saying “for myself…”

And I admitted for lower levels, warriors are useful.


#6

@Lutrus could you add a link to this thread to that comment?


#7

Possibly this one:


#8

Forsci beat me too it :rofl:


#9

Yeah, that makes sense. Cool. I had read that thread, but my eyes must have missed that.

It would be great if they held a dragon spell set design compitition just among players who have been playing for a year or more for creating a set of divines, and had just them vote on the best spell sets for each dragon. I would love to see the results


#10

Warriors are not always garbage…there are some exceptions. Yes, Zamrok is a very good warrior especially in wars. Leos, is like a more resistant drakius. Honestly Leos doesn’t look to be trash like some warriors (abbraxas :nauseated_face:). 82% Reduced damage vs fire turrets and dark flaks (when shield is up). This is before research, rider buffs and Runes. With these added, it could be around 92% reduced damage. Not to mention the 35% heal and lions rage which increases damage by 60% (If i remember correctly) while health is under 55%. Also it leaves a burn on the towers. You will want to use lion’s rage to the full potential but if you use blazing shield too much…u will heal and get more than 55% base health. It could be strategic to fly Leos. Also health boosts will be very effective on this dragon.

My opinions:
Sorcerers: Least amount of health (risky) will die in wars if can’t use the spells. If no white spell - garbage (yes there are exceptions but in general)
Summon spells are nice to have.
Hunters: Main lead/core dragons. White spells make this class very powerful. Needs a lot of rage and skill to fly. You want spells that can counter mage shots and high lvl fark flaks.
Warrior: Most are not as good as the hunters and sorcerers. I’d recommend going for a hunter or sorcerer instead. If they can’t deal with dark flaks and defenders/mage shots…there out.


#11

82% reduced damage is valid for only normal df and ft towers attack. Supershot of these towers will make 100% damage during active defense in war/pvp.


#12

Sorry bro. Zamrok is trash, too.


#13

Take that back!


#14

Warriors up to a certain level or league are effective enough, but like others have said, after that they are a waste… I would have skipped moonfang if I hadn’t accumulated enough sigils to complete him. That goes for all obsidian versions, too. The spell adjustments they’ve forewarned about may improve the value of some as complimentary pieces, but it’s highly speculative at this point. I can definitely see the value in compiling a ranking of spell types for types of dragons as well as preferred spells/resists/etc combinations, but not sure I want us pushing for a more perfect dragon, warriors or others… . It makes more sense to me to have extremely strong dragons that flown with skill and a bit of luck against a heavily defended high level base can destroy just enough to set up a teammate to follow and they be equally challenged… it’s not far from that now, though it’s currently favoring maxed defenses more than maxed dragons. My top 3 dragons combine to over a billion AP and it took all three to get 97% on an undefended 977m Defense base… and I feel pretty good about that. It actually allows defense to be more of the game for higher level players… it still matters little for mid and lower though.

Guess what I am trying to say is that as much as it would be nice to know the value of spells and resist sand which combinations are more effective based on strong data, I don’t know that I want to build a Franken-warrior who tanks high level bases like earlier versions at lower levels used to do… I readily admit that not many will share that view though lol


#15

Cloak can also help heal with high enough research


#16

Maybe not a Franken-warrior, but what about one that is at least a viable option in a war? Not exactly sure what this looks like though, since hunters can maneuver around a base and warriors can’t really do that :thinking:


#17

Hunters dominate past gold


#18

Agreed… tanks , or brutes, in games should be designed to help take out chunks of a defense… hunters are like fast movers that can precisely take out strategic targets and sorcerers are the bombers who lay waste to remaining defenses… it would make the game immensely more interesting if strategy could include forces as they are intended…with at least some flexibility … you make great points


#19

One of the things that makes hunters so good is not only their skills but the fact that the skill of the flyer (usually) matters too. I’m completely spitballing here but I don’t see why warriors need to get the shaft on spells. Instead of trying to figure out the right “heated breath” why not give a warrior the thunderbolt. I know most damage spells are HP based so gives warrior an edge there but if warriors are so unusable at this point why not give it a try? Can always nerf it later lol.

Thunderbolt
Northern Lights
Extract Essence
Dark Flak Resist
Ice Resist

:man_shrugging:


#20

Thunderbolt would be an extra 1.2M of damage (raw - so probably more than double that in practice) on an expert warrior vs hunter. Even buffing dragons for the better later resulted in an implosion; nerfing later would be hellfire. :see_no_evil: