Winterjol Dragon Changes - Discussion Thread


#560

The sorcerer spell can get through because it can’t burst it’s attack to destroy one tower like a hunter can.


#561

that is one of the trade off


#562

But without a change to this, sorcerers are doomed to be trash. Hunters don’t need to be the only viable lead dragon. Not saying Surts design should be the answer but you need a way to avoid rage drain and survive long enough to defeat a shield whether it be storms/earth or red mage, as well as heal or block damage.


#563

Im sure without the spamming healing, Surt can kill the base like any other mythic


#564

If he can’t kill the island he will die, unless his swipe attack can miraculously beat hammer spam


#565

Pathox isnt different
suggestion: equip an additional spell to pass through in hard time

dont you think 2 high damage red spell would kill the base instead of 1?


#566

A lot of bases have more than one strong island. One offensive consumable will not make the difference unless they only have one strong island.

Pathox is good but imo he’s lacking damage output


#567

then you pick the wrong dragon for the base, use another one
it is not just Surt, it is for all dragon. For example, Surt can make a break through 1 island and Pathox couldnt kill anything but Itzani can


#568

A dragon should be able to solo a base, unless say very very rarely against a triple defended. Just because most dragons can’t doesn’t mean some shouldn’t, as some do. A dragon shouldn’t be unstoppable tho. Certain dragons should be able to solo a defended base, just not with any sort of ease (again I know surt is mostly skill less); double defended, eh this one is a tough one as it should be pretty rare for a dragon to be able to solo. But two dragons should be able to do it for sure

All this is in the mindset of wars, I get that people feel their troops in atlas should have more protection than this, but that’s really a different discussion. As I mentioned before atlas really kinda screwed with the balance of the game due to troops being such a valued resource, and easily lost


#569

I would agree that a dragon should be able to solo an undefended base. But in no way should a dragon of a tier equal to a base be able to solo defended (even if its just one, but most definitely not three) it unless the person behind the dragon is incredibly skilled.


#570

That is crazy, what it sounds like to me is you don’t think a double defended base should be able to be 5 flamed in war? Which isn’t logical. 3 defenders I can understand not getting 5 flames. But not two, at least for the few really good dragons and flyers. I’m definitely not saying every dragon should be able to do this.

[Edit: Here’s my opinion of skill in relation to defended bases:

Average to above average flyer with a really good dragon (ie in relation to their tier: Surt, Hau (sorta hau he normally requires a well above average to skilled flyer), Itz, Pathox, Necryx, Fohmar, Noc, Axi, and maybe sylphen) how many non hunters are in that list?—— this combo should be able to take on a defender, mostly geared towards the above average. To put more fine a point on it. Two average players should be able to 5 flame a single defended base with the above average being able to maybe solo.

Above average to skilled flyer + good dragon (example listed above): double defended—— so two above average flyers can maybe 5 flame, while one skilled flyer can maybe solo depending on what dragon.

Top 1% of skilled fliers (not 1% of all fliers but of skilled) can maybe be able to take out trip defended, depending on the dragon (for max bases dragons capable of this are very rare, Surt (I know doesn’t require skill) and itz as far as I know…tier for tier). Two of those fliers should be able to 5 flame. Granted itzani seems to only take a skilled flyer, not the top 1%.

I consider myself maybe above average, so I don’t think I can take out two defenders unless it’s a poorly setup base]

People don’t seem to really be complaining about itzani even tho he seems completely unstoppable if flown right. That’s just because he is a hunter (and has an obvious skill element to him), and the only people complaining about surt seem to be at or near end game, for which only they have access to itzani, and hunters are on a pedestal, don’t get me wrong I love hunters, but I don’t believe they should be the only good dragons out there.


Spring Season Mythic’s..... Balance/Not?
#571

Big difference between solo and 5-flamed… you can 5-flame with a backer, even though it technically takes two dragons.


#572

I understand that completely which is why I explained a little further my opinion on the matter.


#573

Fair point. I had it up and was reading it before the edit. I get what you’re saying. I may have been quick to poo-poo what you were saying and got hung up on one part of the post. My bad on that.

It may be just that this thread is flooded with people saying that Surt is nerfed so bad that he’s useless that I misread the intent of your post. It’s easy to miss a coherent response amidst a sea of doomsaying about refunds and how Surt is a lame duck when he really isn’t.


#574

No worries, edits are tricky in forums lol. I think most people can get hung up on certain things no matter if they have a valid point or not

Edit: yea I don’t have a clear opinion of surt. Not enough post nerf info out there at the moment. But it seems like his healing is still plenty effective. My only real thought is that maybe Ragnarok needs a very slight buff for the spell to be able to clean up defended, geared, boosted and warrior perch bonus towers +1 tier.

Subsequent edit: perhaps the limit for ragnarok should be him able to destroy equal geared towers +1tier + 30% boost + defender boost + warrior perch boost but not be able to kill the random mythic warrior boosted tower


#575

Was not sure how much will change on UVS impact him. I liked him before, now I really love to use him. Wouldn’t even hesitate to use him in war… I don’t think he is OP, he can be killed if not flying well, but now he feels like a mythic divine dragon. Thank you :blush:


#576

Just a few minutes ago @mechengg and I had the first test of nerfed Surt against his defended base.

2:0 for mechengg

It was impossible to Incinerate the red mage and one shot the 65s as I got rage drained right beforehand. As Ragnarok does not take out the flaks Surt dropped two times before something other than the red mage was taken out. If Ragnarok would still heal there would be enough time for a second BH. Up to now my LvL 38 Surt, mid Harbinger, gear 3/8 legendary is not strong enough to take out 65s defended. We might retry later with LvL 40.

From experience before the nerf (bad luck not against the same base) this wouldn’t be a problem before the nerf.


#577

What?


#578

So incinerate didn’t one shot the red mage?


#579

Double what?