Winterjol Dragon Changes - Discussion Thread


Had several defenses today. Got to defend against Surt three times. One was ridiculous Vanguard on Emerald/Obsidian base. That was pointless. The other two were pretty equal. Obsidian Surt vs Emerald/Obsidian and Harbinger vs good Harbinger base. Ragnarok did not destroy equal level towers with ragnarok. One we won, the other the towers survived and got destroyed by UVS on a follow up. So I would call it one win for the defense and then a stalemate.

Although UVS did break the stalemate.

Edit. The Obsidian I defended alone. The Harbinger, there were two defenders. The Vanguard we could have had ten defenders and it wouldn’t have mattered.


I’ll just add some context to this as I’ve have Surt myself and have been doing some maths. And I’m also one of those who have said that Ragnarok needs a slight buff.

Basically between obsidian and mid harb, Ragnarok has an issue hitting one tier up (obsidian for 60s, harb for 65s), but from mid harb onwards it starts to improve until mid vans when Surt can reliably kill even the most highly geared level 75 dark flak.

This is NOT a dragon issue, it is a wider game balance issue that modifying Surt itself won’t fix.

So Gox is right when he says Surt is the most powerful dragon in game right now. You just need to be at the right dragon power vs tower power band to feel it.

I take back my comment on Ragnarok needing a buff to 12x as when you get to vanguards that’s a tad too much.


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Lmao, the point of the forums is too discuss certain points of view and for views to be challenged and changed if need be. You just seem salty, lol. He is trying his best to make this abomination balanced and if u have nothing contrastive to say and if you just want to roast people. Go somewhere else cause this isn’t the place for u.


Um he is non emotionally evaluating the situation with math and testing; which is leading him to change his conclusion…you are name calling and presenting no form of data to back your claims.


Personal insults, call-outs and general rudeness will not be tolerated.

Let’s get back on topic now.




He was used super effectively on tens if not 100s of runs in atlas yesterday against max bases with 2 defenders.

These bases all have the stupid multi red mage long islands.

They got 5 flamedwith 2-3 defs. Either he kills them on his own, or kills enough that a second one walks it or the base is so weak due to the stupid layout that other dragons walked all over it.

The dragon is not weak. Nor over nerfed.

As things stand now post adjustment he is no longer op - he seems to fall right into the very top end of the band of expected outcome vs double defended high end bases. What he is certainly not - is just a xp runner or invader dragon.


This is a side effect that people now try to defend Surt as a single Dragon with a changed layout and double red mages. Exactly the “make it easy” way for Pathox. I like Surt as is at lvl 40 even with bad gear as shown above he is strong. But due to the layout changes I fly Pathox way more often at the moment.


I agree with this idea. Whenever a dragon gets nerfed, even if that change is favored by most, players who invested to get the nerfed dragon should have the option of being able to swap for another comparable dragon.
Hopefully, this would blunt the vitriol a bit.


Thanks Gox


Since the final nerf, I gotta say I’m pretty disappointed in my decision to grab Surt over UVS. It seemed like the smart choice in the beginning but as an Obsidian/Harbinger player, Surt no longer has the power to take +1 tier bases or even decently geared same tier bases. Same tier UVS on the other hand has been doing some significant damage to my base since the update. Maybe Surt is extremely good at max tier expert, but in obsidian, he’s not even in my top 3. Too bad he’s not a warrior, then I could at least perch him.

Lesson learned though, aside from the first discount, I won’t be spending any more sigils until the last week so I can allow time to see how PG is going to f*ck up/boost the mythics. Shoulda gone with UVS.


is time stop from uvs based on base hp or modified hp?


With spell scaling now, everything is based on modified.


Not everything i think… i wish i knew why temporary havoc only boosts dragon attack +50%

Edit i misunderstood my bad

Just want ballista to be fixed and gunnar to be on steroids why is that so much to ask with all yalls pathox lol


Yep, Surt definitely needs at least a small buff for ragnorak. Forums remain dominated by end game players, but the game is dominated numerically by those of us stuck in the middle, where Surt remains far from OP. The “well, just wait until you get to Vanguards and you’ll see” approach really shouldn’t apply for a mythic that can’t take out an equivalent emerald/obsidian/harbinger base.


Oh yeah dude UVS all the way


Play the long game dono. When he gets to end harb/vanguard you’ll see the difference.


Why should we have to wait till harbinger? I’m at least a year away from that… with the way I’ve been playing I’m likely near 1.5 years away


Well you don’t have to. I’m responding particularly to Dono where he is at.

I’ll illustrate (no time to make a chart so will use words). I’ll give examples of hitting one tier up (actually closer to 2 tiers up but hey let’s keep things simple.

At Emerald evolve (level 21 Surt), vs a fully maxed out level 45 tower (bearing in mind that is MYTHIC Emerald tower vs baby Emerald Surt), Surt will only need 14.4% gear to one shot Ragnarok. You don’t even need any gear to one shot the level 45 red with Incinerate.

At Obsidian evolve (level 25 Surt), vs a fully maxed out level 55 tower (Mythic Obsidian tower vs baby Obsidian Surt), Surt will need 163% gear to one shot the tower. Impossible.

At Harb evolve (level 34 Surt), vs a fully maxed out level 65 tower (Mythic Harb vs baby Harb), Surt will need 217% gear. Again, impossible.

But watch this:
At Van evolve (Level 44 Surt) vs a fully maxed out level 75 tower (Mythic Van vs baby Van), Surt will need 115% gear. At level 46, Surt needs 88%. At level 48, 69%. At level 50, 58%…you get the drift.

Obsidian and Vanguards are where Surt lags behind. Before that he’s all powerful. After that he’s all powerful. It all depends on where you’re at.

Knowledge is power.