Winterjól Festive Dragon Official Discussion Thread


#271

So… a video of new dragon vs base full of Chunks? :chunk::chunk::chunk::chunk:


#272

If the skill required to be half-life or dying ok I understand (Starburn or Lion Rage, Rebirth Phoenix or Borrowed Time) but showing us dying Dragons isn’t exactly what we expect.


Let’s think back to the previous seasons. How many Divines were considered crap? How many were considered good enough, or even ones you wouldn’t want to miss out? Not many.
And I’m wondering, was it by design they were good… Or by chance? I will blame one thing for this : test builts.

They need to create Dragons and test them vs. real bases, no test builts! And I mean “they” as the people who develop the dragon spells and balance.

@PGLawson I’m asking you from the bottom of my heart to reconsider the way you conceive Dragon spells with your team.

This is the first and primordial step towards better seasonal or lineage content, where we as players will want to get all the Dragons, or where there won’t be bad choices in season lines but “good” or “better” choices.

There’s no hope for S&H anymore, but there’s still hope for the Summer season (pretty sure it’s already too late for Spring season unfortunately…).

We want relevant Dragons vs. real defended bases. We don’t want “xp farms/invader” Dragons or dragons already obsolete for their own tier. Please! :pray:


#273

Be honest. We would totally watch that video.

This seems like exactly the sort of thing that they should have the GPF doing with new spells and dragons. Not “real” bases, necessarily, but definitely bases built like real bases, and defended like real bases.

It seems like ideally, each dragon should be tested at each dragon tier, against:
A) Undefended bases of the same tier
B) Defended bases of the same tier (1, 2, and 3 defenders)
C) Bases built in different ways (e.g. with/without ice flak against a dragon like Cav).
D) All of the above with/without base and dragon gear of various strengths
D) All of the above, but at base tiers above the dragon tier (e.g. 1 tier up, 2 tiers up, etc.)

And standards should be established for use during that testing. “Legendary divines should be able to do X.” “Mythic divines should be able to do Y.” Etc.

Maybe they already do some of that, but either they don’t do it all, or they don’t listen to the GPF’s recommendations. Either way, the GPF isn’t allowed to talk about it. :woman_shrugging:


#274

How could you even suggest that pg doesnt listen to the gpf?¿? THIS IS BLASPHEMY!!! :roll_eyes::roll_eyes::roll_eyes:


#275

Well I agree with you for all the interesting arguments you raised. But the crucial point I would really like to press is that developers should do runs vs. defended bases themselves.

Taking an extreme example here : watching a wonderful Hauheset pilot gliding over a maxed base is a far cry from flying it yourself!

I’d like developers to experience their creations in the harsh, less than ideal environment where human defenders drop a few shields, swords and a bunch of hammers, use supershots carefully, have geared bases of different qualities and so on. Not the safety of a test built with maxed Dragons and maxed runes.

I’m not saying this is a bad way to test a dragon, I’d say it’s only a first step to see how it flies. You need real bases to challenge your creations. You can learn to swim in a pool, but you’ll certainly be bounced up and down and round in the sea and you need to adapt your swimming style. And you need to do it yourself.

This is getting a little too off-topic so I’m giving myself a scolding and I’m advising myself to start a new topic about this. Thank you myself for trying to keep me on topic!

(Yes, I know I’m weird :grin:)

:arrow_right: Link to “Test built, the bane of Dragon spells conception” thread


#276

The only issue with having the developers fly the dragons is we already know they arent very good fliers so their input is going to be mostly one sided which could cause very op dragons if they make them powerful enough for them to do decent.


#277

What? How is to fly a warrior or a sorcerer?
If developers can’t fly their dragons well, they need to redesign dragons.

Makes no sense to release a dragon with a “ good” rating when in fact it’s “ bad” on the hands of developers. If developerss suck at flying dragon A, make dragon A better before release it to the players.


#278

If they did that then it’s very possible in the hands of a decent flyer that dragon would be extremely op and nothing could stop it. Do you really want unstoppable dragons for everyone? Imho of just needs to actually listen to the gpf instead of ignoring them like they always have.


#279

we Won’t overpower divine dragons but at least strong enough to do something. (ie Prospero, Slyphen)
Skoll and Hati cant atk bases of his own level (undefended)…much of the blame goes to his LONG cooldowns
8.5seconds…that took for the butt :confused:


#280

Maybe its time you learn to fly? Dragon clears undefended bases with some thought and planning usually 100%, always 70%. Ap 3.4b; bases: 7-8b.

Perhaps its time to realise your skills and his flight style doesnt match and just move on?

Also, while we are at it - let me point this out again. The last few months the dragons have been overpowered; the expectation for a legendary to clear a base defended is pointless - the aim should be around 30% with 1 defender if the pilot is above average; also not all legendaries will be leads, some will be follows, some will be niche dragons, and the clearly stipulated fun/festive dragons will be different - and definitely arent aimed at being powerful - although they can occasionally turn out that way (axi)


#281

With that logic, then with a backer on a war run, even with only one defender, you should only expect to clear 60% of a base? If we can’t rely on divines to be viable dragons, then we’re left with lineage dragons, and those are just fantastic, as we all know. I agree that we shouldn’t expect OP dragons, but we should expect dragons that can at least manage more than 30% on a base with just one defender.


#282

He references an average flier. A good flier is something very different. An exceptional one is something even further past that.

Let’s be fair an average player isn’t good. At all. They can’t dodge rage drains, they don’t focus the right towers and usually blow everything on storm towers.

At the moment, outside of max rank most flights are stat checks. It usually comes down to the question of does dragon x have high enough strength? If so they win by default


#283

so what ? explain why his sheidl have 8.5seconds of cooldown and last long 3.5, pls answer to this …


#284

Infact…no 1 is asking for an OP dragon but seems the average players cant understand this simply thing.
We want divines at least decently strong ( Axi, Prospero, Slyphen etc ) with at least 1 chance to survive, insted SH is totally trash.


#285

Per Gox, maybe you’re just not good at flying it. Have you considered being better?


#286

You listed three very strong dragons there. Those are NOT average dragons. Honestly average dragons are like Jarl, equestor, Borgian. Things like that.

Not all dragons can and should be as strong as those. Minus slyphen. We need more like slyphen and less like axi and prospero. As much as I love hunters the last few (minus pathox) have been so similar in playstyle


#287

If a lead can only manage 30%, doesn’t mean that the follower can only do the same.
30% with setup will be better than expected.


#288

Heck, if the lead dragon is necryx or noctua they might not even get “30%” while setting up but they could disable that base so badly that a Renard could come on through and destroy everything :upside_down_face:


#289

I agree, but a lot of people weren’t playing when necryx was available and I doubt there’s a huge number of players who are at obsidian. Plus, with the state of the game currently, I don’t think we can afford to be so picky as to say only Lutrus-level skilled flyers should be able to clear a base. The vast majority of players won’t even come close to that level of flying. Whether it be time constraints or a simple lack of rhythm, it’s just a rare quality.

Like I’ve said, I don’t want more Surts. He requires NO skill whatsoever. I would like to see more dragons like Cavaleris, Sylphen, and Pathox. Each of them require some skill to fly well; not an insane amount of skill like Hau, but they’re not face-plant dragons like Surt. They have their respective strengths and weakness that you have to keep in mind, and usually require some planning prior to flying. What we don’t need is all divine dragons to become like Hau and Noctua that can only be effective in the hands of a select few individuals or dragons like Surt that a toddler could successfully fly.

I don’t see how skilled flying could even save this festive, but I’d be willing to change my mind with some video evidence of course. From what I see with the spells and from what I’ve heard from people who have him, he’s a beautiful garbage heap and nothing more, nothing less.


#290

PG wanted a dragon that’s more for fun, and that’s certainly what Skoll and Hati are. It is possible to fly him undefended against an equivalent tier base and win (I tested an expert Skoll and Hati against lvl 75 towers and managed to get a win without too much trouble, and the dragon was riderless and runeless).

Maybe he struggles in certain tier brackets, but I wouldn’t know since I plan on keeping the one I got for my main account at lvl 1.