Winterjól Festive Dragon Official Discussion Thread


This right here is what the mindset should be. Well said Gox! I think we may have all gone a bit far with only picking what is competitive and we forget that somethings are just fun to fly.


Fun dragons are dragons like belly flopping chunk.
This is a dragon war game, not a catch and feed them all. So they should be competitive. Ok it’s my own fault I woke up, saw white spells and got him without checking. But the fact of a spell that makes weaker and a cooldown of ages is a bit to much of wasted sigils… ok like I said …my own fault but still…


I don’t find a dragon that just flops about with no rage and then instantly dies very fun to fly.

And I find it borderline criminal that they dare ask the same price as a real dragon for it. If they put it in a 50% discount line fair enough, let it be a fun but useless dragon.

It’s hardly the only one of course, but it’s still a weird decision. It’s like they wanted the winter season to mirror the summer one, summer had only useless legendaries except the last, winter has only useless legendaries except the first.

Let’s hope spring is a little better, with more than one dragon to choose from.


He isn’t quite that bad;

Try use him as a wing, he has some interesting interactions.

Not my idea of a game breaker, but definitely not as useless as some others.

All you really need is for the lead to drop the iceflak and the occasional mage.

I’m not saying i’d pick him up PER CHOICE above one of the mythics, but if you had some throwaway sigils, I would probably pick him up instead of one of the other legendaries


I’ll admit that if it’s clearly weaker, which this is, it could deal with being cheaper. If it was a discount line that would likely solve this completely.

But I get where your coming from. I do think more fun to fly dragons would be good. But them being more regularly/easy to obtain would be nice


Well it’s good to hear that he might be borderline usable. I’ll probably get him anyway because I can use the glyph and need to dump my sigils somewhere, so I’ll see for myself then.

But I struggle to think of a scenario where a wing like that would be useful. I’d surely not risk using a weak dragon on a war run or atlas run. Also it’s weird that a dragon with two white spells still needs to have the mages cleared for him, might as well just use stormheim or something by then and just freeze every island.

I think the best he can do is stay at garnet and fill a gap in my Temple Raid line-up. At least I can fly him once a season then, instead of never.


I think it comes back to the legendary part and the role of legendaries.

He has some interactions that work well, but as I said not my idea of a fun dragon - he does however blow stuff up fairly effectively if you have a lead that clears iceflaks.

He can heal a substantial amount from his shield, and with the fairly limitless shots he can fire, you can deal significant damage (assuming you like tapping like a maniac - i do not like this mechanic)

I wouldn’t pick him up above the mythics though, so IF someone had to choose between getting it or a mythic, the choice is clear,

I would probably consider him if I cannot complete the rider line, but only get say “half way” into a line, if i was a non end game player (aka if I say only need dragons up to garnet)


That right there is my biggest issue. It was even said in the livestream last week that this is not a dragon designed for attacking defended bases but instead a more “casual and fun” dragon… then why is it the same price as everything else if it was designed only to be flown casually? A casual dragon should have a casual price. Dont try to charge the same for a McDonald’s hamburger as you would a fillet at a steak house


@Arelyna for health reason, can Auto-tap be implemented to these dragons, since you mentioned that


From a journal I’ve read, average taps/s for human is about 7 taps/s.

If we’re pushing it, we can reach 10-12 taps/s


Just looked at the stream…damn why haven’t I looked earlier. That hectic tapping sound!! A lot of people definitely going to have carpal tunnel syndrome after leveling this dragon.
PG! Change that spells pretty please…


As an answer to all those who said the dragon isn’t that bad or they shouldn’t fix this dragon.

The dragon was advertised as one of the strongest dragons. Even after the warning from GPF they assured us it would be fixed that they where working close with GPF to alleviate issues.

This dragon looks great but is literally garbage. Only gets 30% damage and has a very hard time killing towers while Solar Volley is active. Watching the tower health bar drop very slowly, ohh it only lasts for 3.5s +1.5s :roll_eyes:

This dragon has no way to dodge or soak mage shots so basically every spell is worthless.
Then even while attacking undefended the Moonshroud lasts 3s and then it’s death because you need to clear blue, ice and then damage with solar Volley at only 30% of damage.

I’m not even asking for S&H to be able to clear defended just a damage boost to Solar Volley from 35% to 38%
Maybe allow the Moonshroud to soak up mage shots after all it does have an 8s cool down.
But ultimately I’d be fine with the dragon just getting the damage boost. I just wanna use it to farm rss and the occasional :eggtoken: mission. I don’t think that is too much to ask for, after all it was a 31k sigil dragon.
Jarl is even better than this dragon.


This dragon is my favorite and I’ve been waiting for this dragon. Good job on the visuals and appearance. It is truly one of the more beautiful dragons you have ever made.


I was quite sceptical about the “highest damage output in the game” claim, so I did some math based on observed tap speed from a few of my own replays. And I have to admit S&H come out better than I expected.

I say I could easily empty 12 hunter shots on a regular hunter under a second, using multiple fingers. It would seem I could do 5 3-finger shots in a second rather easily. 7 of those feels like an upper limit while maintaining some kind of precision (21 shots/s total).

So I made a graph of a theoretical 50s damage output with the assumption there are always 3 towers to hit, and optimal use of hunter ammo. Also assuming maxed runes on S&H for the full 6-second spell duration.

The graph shows the amount of “normal-shot” hits delivered per second, with Prospero/Gunnar rated at 2.5 per tap, assuming all shots will be delivered with the boost on (recharging while spell is on CD). For S&H I rated it at 0.3 per tap during Solar Volley, and 1 per tap while the spell is on cooldown. The “+ Starburn” lines assume Starburn kicks in 3 seconds into the flight, increasing the numbers to 0.42 and 1.4 respectively.
The explosion damage from Solar Volley and Scarlet Fever is not in the graph.

As you can see in the graph S&H keeps up with Gunnar quite well, much better than I expected. Of course it will never quite work like this in real flight. On the one hand Prospero and Gunnar’s sharp bursts have a much better chance at taking out essential towers quick enough, especially when facing hammers. They also don’t need to have near-continual targets available because of the burst. And of course they have better dodging and control options.

In balance, the explosion damage from Solar Volley will make the burst of S&H a little better and move it further up on the total damage rank.

This is just theorycrafting, not actual flying, but from these numbers I have to say S&H don’t look as bad as I’ve been saying they are. Hammers and rage drains are still very much a problem for it, so I think it’ll remain a dragon that mostly works for undefended bases. But from the looks of this it works better at those than I initially thought.


The only way for S&H to obtain such mighty power is forged Havoc…

Can you please makes a comparison for 1 / 3 sec duration? Since when I used Pros, I think 1 second is the effective time for hitting the burst.
Also, 3 seconds is effective duration for MoonShroud


I thought a second as well, but I looked at recordings of my own flights and found that I generally unload in a bit over half a second. Sustaining that is a different matter but I think the darker “5x3” lines are quite realistic without insane tapping speed.

As for the damage in the opening burst only, let’s assume you start firing from the corner, take a little damage to let Starburn kick in after 2 seconds, and only then activate your shield for a total fight time of 5 seconds. If you only want to look at the first three seconds you can do that in the same graph of course.

Basically the shorter the damage window, the worse S&H are going to look, as they are about sustained damage over an ~8 second window (12 shot burst + 6 seconds of Volley + 12 shot burst).

Three seconds in S&H are behind even in the fastest tapping line, although this does not include the damage from the Solar Volley explosion. With Starburn active, S&H need about 4 seconds of damage dealing to catch up with the one-second burst delivered by Prospero or Gunnar on shots alone.

He’s not going to replace my Gunnar any time soon, but I am wondering if he might be worth leveling to tier after all, instead of abandoning him at Garnet for Temple Raid. Got plenty of time to figure it out before the end of season fortunately.

Edit: Oh, and this graph does assume Gunnar stopped shooting after the first burst to recharge, I’ll make another to show what happens if you keep tapping


This is S&H vs Gunnar who keeps shooting as ammo refills, with his boost running out after 3 seconds. If it was Prospero, the line would go up at the same rate after 3 seconds since his boost doesn’t end.


I’m bothered that a twin dragon only uses one dragon. AA has the dark/light setting you can switch, what about this S&H twin?

Is this dragon rushes or what? It’s no fun to have a twin dragon that does not utilize “twin” setting.

PG needs to rework this twin dragon, and make them good.


What happens if you equip chaos on him? (Graph wise)


I’m not sure what the bonus for equipped chaos is these days, is it +100% over the top?

With spell scaling, I suppose all the lines move up as much as the % boost is, so if it’s +100% I’d expect all of these values to double. Which would mean S&H overtake Gunnar 2 seconds in, and would end up significantly higher after 5 seconds (not sure how long equpped chaos lasts either).

I’ve never tried but I assume Gunnar couldn’t use chaos because Snow Blind is too similar. Can S&H actually equip it?


honestly, my biggest complaint about this dragon is the 3d model and animations. why is the body so dang long?! they’re not serpents, they’re doggos. please fix.
even if they’re not the strongest dragon in the game I’m still enjoying flying them.


Did you mean Havoc?