Winterjól Season Preview/twitch Rider Notes (2nd post) & Other Streams


Care to name some dragons? I’ve not had this issue with Aristrat, UVS, Oni, Jotun…

Working with runed and buffed max obsidian divine dragons I can usually fairly easily mow through my invader (level 65 towers)

Jarl is now 2 levels into harbinger and I still fail 2 1 out of 10 runs. (Lazy flying but this is not typical)

I could remember the numbers wrong but I believe max obsidian (hilder or Gunnar) with runes and buffs was showing 400m+ and jarl just crosses 400m but still struggles. Especially if lightning towers show up.

In any event it’s under performing at max obsidian.


You just named mythics and an end game legendary

  • Leos - decent for a short time at lower levels

  • Gladicus - easily one of the worst dragons ever

  • Kirin - pretty much only good for a perch

  • Nollaig - had potential but another victim of ice flak resist and a freeze that didnt work like it should

  • Tez - for some reason designed for long bases, another ice flak resist

  • cav - good white shield but a poor damage boost and yet another ice flak resist (and that ice flak erases all of his damage boosts making him unable to kill anything)

  • Jarl - 6 second cooldown on his only rage spell, just a really garbage dragon

The only good harbinger warrior was Destar.


Yes those would be the warriors released most recently. All but Jarl. Which I’m not impressed by so far. I should have included wydrian, destar and even Balahm.

The ones you named are older attempts at making warriors relevant, and they actually do make progress.

Nollaig, Cav, and Leos are extremely
Capable warriors. At the time they were released they did excellent.

No way I’d call them tissue papery. Are you sure you have them with an appropriate rider, gear and runes?

Cav is extremely capable and I should have included it on my list. I’ve seen it take huge bases defended. You can’t be one of those one button pilots if you want to do well he needs constantly attention.

Nollaig’s freeze is amazingly powerful, it didn’t always kill towers but it could survive a ton. It’s also fun to fly and relatively easy to use. And zero rage regenerate is crazy useful

Leos was possibly the first attempt in the recent shift towards making warriors good. I’d consider it superior to gargula… the first warrior with dark flak resist I think.

Gladicus was a flop. But we have flops in hunters too. Hardly proof of warriors being tissue paper.

Kirin is actually super powerful at the low end but weak at the high end. (Or was pre spell scaling) It’s also a festive dragon, so I lit over delivered for what a festive dragon usually is. Axi was the exception to the rule for festive dragons.

I don’t know much about Tez, but a lot like him. You may be right, maybe it’s another flop, but I don’t think this list shows recent warriors as being tissue paper

I’ll hand you that morthill and Girasol were trash

Balahm was not bad, but not as good as Jotun.

Destar was great (athouh I think it was a bad direction)

Wydrian was also great.

Archimera and Herdron were okay but not exciting.

Stormheim was actually a fantastic warrior.

Pyro and kyrule were also decent.

All of these dragons until destar pretty much had zero reach above their tier. Spell scaling may have fixed some of them.

Again, Wydrian was a great warrior. It didn’t extend beyond harbinger legendary towers though.

Maybe you think that’s what they are missing? Almost all warriors since destar have had marked improvement. Elemental resist has been a big reason.

I guess I’d have to ask what makes you think that they are “tissue paper”. I fly a bunch of these on alts and can reach decently high with many. They won’t perfork according to your needs I’d you don’t have them geared properly.

I would like to see all classes be relevant with a purpose. I’d like to see some bases where one class is best on it, or at least some tower configs where it is.

I think Cav is an excellent warrior. It’s not typical in that you can’t just hold your finger down. You gotta really keep all the spells in motion, and shift gears as needed. The damage amp stacks and actually works quite well. I’m not sure it’s spell is scaling how it should post spell scaling changes but again I’ve seen my teammates take down some really big bases defended with him.

I think a lot of them lost relevance over time.

Use Amorak as an example. Released when ballista were the most feared tower. At a time before the dark flak when you used to equip cure poison and use itnstrategically, you repeated cure poison. It was a game changer. Then (current type) divines came out, dark flak came out, ballistas became ignorable, and everything changed.

Leos is still a good dragon but you won’t get harbinger towers with it unless you over-compensate with gear. The only reason it’s not considderd good anymore is because we have better now.


I definitely have to disagree on this. His freeze should have worked just like Gunnar’s does in that when you hit the tower the projectile is frozen but it doesnt. Instead it seems to lose momentum and if it is slow enough it might stop, otherwise you still get hit by the mage ss. The freeze also needed to last much longer for a warrior than just 2 seconds

Cav is definitely useful but his weak damage boost really doesnt let him kill much against a defended base. The main contributor to him doing well is often defenders not properly defending against him and wasting their ss when they know his shield is going to be used

As someone who flew Leos for a pretty long time, I cant really agree to that. Leos was good at lower levels where people still primarily relied on Dark Flaks and turrets to deal damage but once he started getting into garnet and higher where you’d see a lot of people trading out fire turrets for fire flaks he went down pretty fast. He wasnt aweful but he wasnt that good either. If either his shield had been white or Lion’s rage had also generated rage than I think he’d have been considerably better

I dont really see what is great about Wydrian overall. Bloodfury and DF resist are good spells but heat shield and heated breath are both very poor spells. Maybe now with spell scaling if you have really strong gear to boost his healing

I mean, you can basically say that about every seasonal dragon. Coatl is good at lower levels simply because it has a dark flak resist and a white attack spell. Kirin was similar to Cav in that his usefulness came from people not properly defending against him and just wasting ss

I personally dont think you can use Vanguard as a basis of warrior progression. Vanguard itself was just a good tier with the introduction of or saw higher use of good spells. IMO seasonals are where you need to look since these are dragons the entire game gets access to, not just endgame players. We havent had a legendary seasonal warrior with blood fury or elemental resist and other than Jarl the last ones to not have ice flak resist were Leos and Glad from last year

Gear really shouldn’t be used as an indication of if a dragon is good or not. If you have full maxed out legendary or elite gear on basically anything it can be good. That’s like saying a toy car with C4 strapped to it is good for knocking down houses. The toy car isnt what knocked down the house, it’s just what the C4 was riding on.

We could go on and on and on debating this but my point is that warriors inherently are a weaker class and do not get the attention they need. They’re supposed to be tanky but that requires more than just HP, that requires spells that support that bulk such as a good resist and some way to actually use their spell(s).after getting rage drained. Rejuvenate is a great spell but it is completely reliant on being able to kill the blue mage which usually due to the lack of a good resist and low damage output, by the time that happens the warrior is about 80% dead and has zero rage.


Shadow strike can be OP but it depends on the rest of the spells….


Shadow Strike is already in the game on Itzani. Why are there sudden declarations of “OP” now?


People love buzzwords.


I don’t have issues with mage supershots. Have you tried using it differently. I use freeze a lot different on warriors than I do on hunters. (Since hunters have ammo limits you are limited more but a warrior has infinite retrigger within spell duration)

And again this predated Gunnar by a few seasons, so it was likely partly inspiration for Gunnar. You really can’t expect all dragons of differn’t seasons to be equal. It works fine for me and I have a few teammates who love it and use it still. Not many warriors stay on my roster, but it’s more due to utility and tier. It’s one of my alts top dragons.

Definitely not tissue paper. I mean I wouldn’t say it was a top 10 dragon but it’s by no means crappy or worthless.

Well his damage boost stacks, I assume you know. So it gets really high if you are good with him. Some bases are better to use it on than others. Very short bases don’t really give you time to stack any damage. But that by no means makes it tissue paper.

Leos is the oldest dragon you listed. It was the first warrior to have dark flak resist and it was so successful aspects from it have been reused.

It was definitely solid up into obsidian. You needed to gear it properly. Again you make comments that lead me to believe you under geared it or expected it to take down harbinger towers. Guys on my team still have their bases hit by it if their towers are within range. Nollaig, and Cav are why you don’t see it as much. It was a top dragon on an alt account I have until 2 seasons ago. It’s still a decent dragon, the bar was just raised since then. But that doesn’t make it crap. A lot of bases have taken their dark flak and fire flak levels higher than the rest of their towers. On bases with otherwise obsidian towers I’ve seen the flaks in the lead kill island being low harbinger. Just two towers at higher level makes such a dragon fail. It’s not that it’s a paper tissue so much as it’s not able to inflict enough damage fast enough. You fine similar things happening with hunters. Necryx was the festive from that season I believe and it’s got similar reach with average skill due to low dps… (although elemental barrier and cloak allowed it to skip the one or two really high towers easier)

Again not saying a top 10 dragon, but it worked well at the time it was released and it doesn’t go down easily. You admitted it was a dragon you flew a lot. Would you really fly a paper tissue for long duration?

Newer dragons need to be better or why would people buy them?

Well he terrorized almost all bases until destar was released. He has the same advantage destar does but without spell flux. Crazy hp and health recovery. You don’t even need to agree it’s great, but it’s no paper tissue

Coatl isn’t bad at the top end either. Festive dragons have a differnt power distribution. And your claim is they are paper tissues. Kirin terrorizes the lower levels. On the high end it’s a bit weak in my experience. But it’s a festive dragon of which most aren’t really good for end game.

Under what basis is that? You mean you don’t yet have one available to you? They all start out end game and over time it’s what is available.

And why ignore huitzil. Nerfed or not it’s extremely strong for a non end game player, and has blood fury.

It’s not like pg has ever gone to old dragons and given them new spells. You pretty much need to wait for that tier to be old enough that it’s in your range. Like it or not vanguard is where the most current stuff they are making exists and if it’s good then you will get it when you get there. If it’s crap then you won’t. Divines are the only way to get those spells sooner. I’m not saying it’s a good system but it’s the system we have. I mean if you want to argue about fall 2017 dragons being not good then that’s fine but again this is about them being a paper tissue. I fully admit that dragons balance is neglected over time and the older they are the less useful they are even at the tier they were created…

It has to be. See this is where the issues you have comes from. Naked dragons are just not going to be the thing. If you use a naked obsidian dragon you are really flying the equivalent of a emerald dragon or maybe worse. Gear is a progression metric. It’s nice in that it can move. When they balance for n-4 dragons it’s also n-4 gear and n-4 research etc.

I understand your frustration with it but it’s got advantages too. It’s the only thing you don’t yet have to repurchase constantly. Like it or not it’s there and if you ignore it expect weaker dragons.

Your c4 analogy is not a an alogoy. Unless you have expert gear and that’s what’s knocking down bases it doesn’t work that way. Your gear is expected to be at the level your opponents / competition is generally. It’s a lever you can use to tweak for a defensive or offensive bias. You can build up one set or build out on many sets. Strategy games often depend on focusing your efforts. Gear is one of them

You called them paper tissue. I was saying they were not. They are actually stronger inheritantly at their competitive tier but weaker beyond. It’s being worked on and spell scaling was a direct effort towards this. Hunters will always have the ability to make more choices and that often results in focused efforts which warriors cannot match. I agree they neee to be worked on, and I think the dragons covered so there is improvement over time. It sounds like you want it now and not in 6+ months. It also sounds like you feel they should operate without gear. I don’t think either of those is going to happen. But again. Not going to say they may not need help but by no means tissue paper.

That’s like saying cloak is a good spell but it’s completely reliant on having to kill the blue mage. That’s how it’s supposed to work. Strategic choices. Rejuvenate tends to be useful between islands so it’s like an auto recovery… if you make the spell white it’s making it unbalanced.


*publishes Eidolon’s replies as online PDF, complete with page numbers and chapter headings


Cause I didn’t catch the info of the Vans at the time they came out. What can stop it?


That’s the longest post ive read :face_with_hand_over_mouth::partying_face:


Just about all dmg (dragon cant heal)


This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.


How bout create a spell that freezes tower healing when active?

Edit: and did someone really say coatl had power at all? Lol, he’s like the gladicus of sorcerers :joy:


Coatl actually solos my Garnet tier for the temple raid. I don’t like the dragon, but I am glad I left him in Garnet.


So is there any news today?


It’s Monday. What kind of news are you expecting, other than that the next event is breeding?


Well, this was just posted


Tomorrow they will share the empyrean dragon info. Level caps etc.


And neglect to address any of the outstanding issues. More dragon tiers, more tower levels. Same XP issues, no elemental lumber, same, same, same.